HC Deb 17 May 1972 vol 837 cc503-5
8. Mr. Frank Allaun

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment whether lie will take steps to encourage building more council houses, particularly in view of the rise in private house purchase prices to levels beyond the possibilities of those on ordinary incomes; and if he will make a statement.

The Minister for Housing and Construction (Mr. Julian Amery)

The present Government, unlike the last Labour Government, place no restrictions on the numbers of further dwellings which local authorities can build to meet local needs. There are welcome signs that the decline in the public sector which we inherited from the previous Labour Government is being halted. [Interruption.] I am glad to see, too, the substantial increase in private sector building and the continuing rise in home ownership.

Mr. Allaun

But what is to be done by young couples who cannot afford to buy their own homes on mortgage at the new exorbitant prices? Are they not dependent on council house building? Would not the best way for the Government to help therefore be to reverse their plans and instead increase the total subsidy for council house building from the present amp;£157 million a year to that for owner-occupiers of amp; £302 million a year? That would do more than anything else to improve council house building.

Mr. Amery

I am glad that the hon. Gentleman recognises that council house building is improving markedly, particularly in cities like London and Birmingham, where stress has been greatest. There was an 8 per cent. increase in London public sector building last year and a 26 per cent. increase in Birmingham starts——

Mr. Clinton Davis

What about council house building

Mr. Amery

—I am talking about council building. I share the hon. Gentleman's concern about first-time purchasers, and I am glad to see that in 1971 there were 370,000 of them compared with 300,000 in 1970 and that more than 30 per cent. of all houses mortgaged with building societies were mortgaged by people earning £30 a week or less. The truth is quite simple. For a long time everyone has been wanting to own his own house, and now at last many people have the money to do it.

Mr. Freeson

Will the Minister reconsider his statement about the figures for council housing sarts, which according to information his own Department publishes is quite inaccurate? Is he aware that the last monthly average published by his Department is a figure of 12,000-odd houses started in March compared with the average for 1970 of 12,800 and for 1969 of 14,700? How can he tell the House that there is an increase when there is a clear reduction?

Mr. Amery

I take the hon. Gentleman's point. What I should like to explain to him, because he understands about these matters with his long experience of local government, is that the decline in public sector approvals from 1968 to 1969, from 1969 to 1970 and from 1970 to 1971 has been as follows: a 19 per cent. decline between 1968 and 1969; a 19 per cent. decline between 1969 and 1970; and a 3 per cent. decline between 1970 and 1971. The curve is levelling out.

24. Mr. Skinner

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what are the latest available figures for house building in the public sector.

Mr. Amery

In Great Britain there were 12,100 new dwellings started in the public sector in March, 1972, 700 more than in March, 1971, an increase of 6 per cent.

Mr. Skinner

Why is the Minister bragging? His right hon. Friend three years ago toured the country telling Tory1- controlled local authorities not to build council houses. Is he aware that when one subtracts from the figure he has given the 2,000 houses per month that are taken out of the public sector and put into the private sector the amount of current council house building which adds to the total housing stock is the lowest for 20 years?

Mr. Amery

I am glad to inform the hon. Gentleman, whose interest in these matters I respect, that under my wise administration public sector starts in London in March, 1972, were 2,513 compared with 2,077 in 1971; in Birmingham 355 compared with 223; in Newcastle 63 compared with 49, and in Manchester 305 compared with 267; and that the only place where we register a drop, from 165 to 139, is Leeds.

Mr. Waddington

What does the Minister propose to do to persuade irresponsible Socialist councils to put the legitimate wishes of their tenants before party dogma? What does he propose to do to see that more council houses are sold to sitting tenants?

Mr. Amery

As my hon. and learned Friend knows, we have already lifted all restriction on the sale of council houses and encouraged local authorities to sell them at a discount of 20 per cent. and, with special authority, at a discount of 30 per cent. We are issuing shortly a circular re-emphasising the need to do this, both to meet the legitimate demand of sitting tenants and to ease the pressure on prices at the lower end of the owner-occupied market.

Mr. Heffer

Will the right hon. Gentleman stop being a knock-about music hall turn? Will he stop this nonsense that we are constantly hearing about the Government doing better than the previous Government and get down to the reality that too many people are still without houses? Irrespective of what the previous Government did and what this Government have done, no Government have built sufficient council houses for the people who require them.

Mr. Amery

I could not agree more with the hon. Gentleman that neither party has done enough to meet the needs of the people. But in answer to criticisms made it is only legitimate—and I am sure that the hon. Gentleman would do the same if he were in my place—to point out that we may not be doing well enough but at least we are doing better.