NORTHERN IRELAND (Hansard, 15 May 1972)

§ The Minister of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Paul Channon)
The House will have heard with regret of the violence in the West Belfast area over the weekend. The main incident was the explosion outside Kelly's Bar in the Ballymurphy area of Belfast at the junction of the Springfield and Whiterock roads shortly after 5 p.m. on Saturday 32 evening. A soldier saw a Morris 1100 car parked outside the bar; the two occupants got out and were seen to enter the bar. Approximately eight minutes later the two men left and approached the car, which blew up. The explosion caused injuries, some serious, to 47 people and severe damage to surrounding premises.
During a period of approximately five hours following the incident, 70 separate shooting incidents were recorded. In these incidents, one soldier was killed, two other soldiers were wounded, four civilians were killed and 10 wounded, all as a result of gunfire. It is thought that five gunmen were killed or wounded.
During further incidents on Sunday it is known that one soldier received a minor wound, three civilians were killed and eight wounded. At 8.30 on Sunday evening the Army intervened in the Ballymurphy and Springmartin areas to restore law and order and to prevent sectarian rioting. As soon as this happened, shooting virtually came to a stop and the area has been relatively quiet since.
My right hon. Friend who is, as the House would expect, at present in Belfast will make a further statement to the House later this week.

§ Mr. McMaster
I thank the Minister of State for his statement, but is he aware that the ordinary law-abiding population in Northern Ireland is aghast that, following the many statements by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, shooting like this could break out? The Army claims that some five people were injured, but, in spite of the claim by the Government that there is no such thing as a no-go area, not one body or injured person was recovered by the Army. Unless appropriate steps are taken—not words just spoken about relentless pursuit—to search out these terrorists, to find where they are operating from, to arrest them and to bring them before the law, there is a serious danger of civil war in Northern Ireland. This will lead to far greater loss of life and damage to property than if the Army were to step in properly, take the necessary steps with the reserves that my right hon. Friend last Thursday admitted it has, and act immediately.

§ Mr. Channon
I am sure the whole House agrees that the incidents of the 33 weekend are reprehensible and tragic. But the Army took extremely effective action which had the result of dealing with the situation in an effective manner and with complete impartiality. One of the lessons to be drawn from these tragic incidents is that, as my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has repeatedly made clear to the House, when it is necessary to take military measures they will be taken and they will be taken effectively and impartially.

§ Mr. Merlyn Rees
The forces and attitudes revealed over the weekend are not new. They are not the result of policies taken in the last few months, but, rather, they indicate the depth of the problems facing us all in certain parts of Northern Ireland. No words are strong enough to describe those who shoot at ambulance drivers and at those on errands of mercy. Is the Minister of State aware that we support the Army in its peacekeeping tasks, particularly since last evening?

§ Mr. Channon
I am sure the House shares the hon. Member's view about the attitude and behaviour of the Army, which has had an appalling time during this period. I entirely agree with him in what he says about ambulance drivers and attempts made from time to time to shoot them. This must be deplored by every single hon. Member. As he says, no one in this House is under any illusion about the depth and difficulty of the problem confronting us in Northern Ireland.

§ Sir D. Walker-Smith
Would my hon. Friend the Minister of State make clear and emphasise to the House and to people outside his use of the term "impartiality" in this context, and would he make it clear that, while there is, and should be, impartiality by the forces of the Crown between people of different sects and religions, there is, and should be, no question of impartiality between those who seek to break the law and those who seek to impede it?

§ Mr. Channon
I entirely accept what my right hon. and learned Friend says, and this is what the Army is doing and what it did extremely effectively last night in Belfast.

§ Mr. McNamara
Is the Minister of State aware that we all share the horror that is felt about the incident outside 34 Kelly's Bar and similar events in Northern Ireland, and that we welcome the attitude which was taken by the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland in his reaction to what happened over the weekend, and also the Minister of State's reaction about it? It would be wrong to allow one terrible incident or a group of terrible incidents to divert the Secretary of State from his policy of seeking to achieve conciliation between the two sections of the community in Northern Ireland.

§ Mr. Channon
I am grateful for what the hon. Member says. All sections of the House would agree that unless there is reconciliation between the two communities there is no hope whatsoever.

§ Captain Orr
The events of the weekend are very grave indeed. They show that the hitherto operated policies of the Government have brought about a situation where people, despairing of parliamentary government, are more and more taking to the streets. Would my hon. Friend please be under no illusion, and ask his right hon. Friend to be under no illusion, that some change of direction is required if Northern Ireland is not to go into a gradual descent into anarchy, disorder and bloodshed?

§ Mr. Channon
I am sure the whole House will agree that the great aim in Northern Ireland must be to create a situation, which it is extremely difficult to create, of reconciliation between the communities. At the same time, as my right hon. Friend has made clear again and again to this House, when it is necessary to take military steps and to pursue those who are breaking the law, from wherever they may come, he will not hesitate in making sure that the most effective military measures are taken, and this is what happened yesterday.

§ Mr. Orme
The one change we want to see is the change towards a political solution in Northern Ireland, which many of us believe is what the Secretary of State is now pursuing. We would not like to see him pushed off that course by the unfortunate events of the weekend. Can the Minister say to what extent the Protestant community was involved and what part it played in the weekend's unfortunate events, and does it appear that these tragedies are spreading in that direction?

§ Mr. Channon
I am sorry to tell the House that there was shooting from both the Ballymurphy and the Springmartin estates during the incidents of the weekend. That is a regrettable fact of the weekend's tragedies. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State is pursuing his policies, which I think have the general support of the House, of seeking reconciliation between the communities, effective military steps, and a proper political solution which will satisfy all parties in Northern Ireland.

§ Rev. Ian Paisley
There is not only a grave situation but a very dangerous one coming about in Belfast, especially in West Belfast. In this area at one time Protestants lived side by side with Roman Catholics in the Ballymurphy estate. They were forced out of that estate across the road to the New Barnsley estate, and now they have been forced out of there to the Springmartin estate. There have been two removals for these people, and they are living in a state of fear.
Can my hon. Friend the Minister of State explain why the Army was removed from the Springmartin estate some weeks ago and why soldiers on duty there were drastically reduced in number, in spite of vigorous protests by the people living in that estate? Would he ensure that the military will not need to move into these districts but will be in them ready to prevent such tragedies as happened at the weekend?
Can the Minister comment on the appearance of a Browning machine gun at an official IRA stop point in a no-go area in Londonderry? Will he not agree that if we are unable to stop people parading guns openly in the streets of Belfast and Londonderry other sections of the community—and I would condemn and deplore their actions—will inevitably rise up and take the law into their own hands? I would warn the House that we are in a very serious position, not a position in which to make party-political points, but one in which we must get down to the business of finding some very urgent solutions.

§ Mr. Channon
We would all agree with the hon. Member that the situation in Northern Ireland is very serious and has been for some considerable time. The House will concur with him in his con- 36 demnation of gunmen, wherever they may come from. 1 thank him for his remarks in that connection. As for the detailed questions that he has asked me dealing with this incident, I will ask my right hon. Friend further about this. As I told the House earlier, my right hon. Friend will make a detailed statement later in the week. I will draw his attention to the remarks made by the hon. Member.

§ Mr. Stallard
Will the hon. Gentleman accept that most of us deplore these incidents, not only of the weekend but of last weekend and all through the week. Like the hon. Member for Antrim, North (Rev. Ian Paisley), I would not want to make any political points out of these unfortunate incidents. Would the hon. Gentleman agree that there appear to he people on both sides in Northern Ireland at the moment with a vested interest in discrediting the political initiative that we think has started there in the past few weeks? Unfortunately, I begin to fear that maybe people in this House are tending to take that kind of view. Is he aware that we deplore this and would certainly want to see a political atmosphere created in which people can work for their aims legitimately? Let us get rid of this violence. I certainly support the aim of the hon. Gentleman and his right hon. Friends in any steps they take to try to curb this latest outburst.

§ Mr. Channon
My right hon. Friend told the House last week that the overwhelming majority of people in Northern Ireland, in every part of the community, desire peace above anything else. As my right hon. Friend also said, there are undoubtedly a small number of people, in the minority, who wish to make this political initiative fail. I believe it to be the collective will of this House that the political initiative of the Government should not fail and must not be allowed to fail.