HC Deb 10 May 1972 vol 836 cc1287-91
1. Mr. Meacher

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what reply he has given to the 2,500 retirement pensioners who have petitioned him to remove the inequity in the licensing of television for the elderly.

The Minister of Posts and Telecommunications (Sir John Eden)

I am looking carefully at the arrangements for the special licence for old persons' homes and when I have done so I will write to the hon. Members for Oldham, West (Mr. Meacher) and Oldham, East (Mr. Lamond) who forwarded this petition to me.

Mr. Meacher

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is widespread resentment at the anomaly whereby some old people have to pay the full £7 for their television licence while others only have to pay 5p? In view of the important social function of television in old age, will the right hon. Gentleman look again at ways of recompensing the BBC for the revenue which would be lost by making television licences free for all old people?

Sir J. Eden

I have already made it clear that I am looking very closely at what the hon. Gentleman describes as this anomaly. As the hon. Gentleman knows, it derives from a decision taken by the present Deputy Leader of the Opposition.

Sir G. Nabarro

Will my right hon. Friend please recognise, new as he is to his present office, that this controversy has been going on for the last six years? Is he aware that whenever I ask about it I am fobbed off for another few months? Can he, with his characteristic alacrity, reach a determination and decision at an early date and remove all old-age pensioners from liability to the combined television and radio licence?

Sir J. Eden

The latter part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question is the subject of a later Question on the Order Paper. With regard to the first part I have already indicated that I am studying the matter closely, and I will arrive at a decision when I have completed my study.

Mr. John Mendelson

Will the right hon. Gentleman accept that his precessor was pressed for a more limited concession for many elderly people living alone in that, if the Government did not find it possible to grant a licence to all retirement pensioners for 5p only, they should at least introduce a half-price licence for old-age pensioners? The right hon. Gentleman's predecessor promised to consider the suggestion but no action has been taken.

Sir J. Eden

Yes, Sir, but this is a matter which requires very careful consideration and that is why I have made it clear that I will study it and then announce a decision.

Mr. Fidler

In the course of his consideration of the anomaly, will my right hon. Friend bear in mind the importance of maintaining the 5p concession for those at present enjoying it? If it is not possible to extend the 5p concession to all old-age pensioners, will he consider special categories, particularly elderly people living on their own and whose only window on the world is the television set?

Sir J. Eden

That is the sort of point I am looking at.

Mr. Gregor Mackenzie

Will the right hon. Gentleman recognise—as I am sure he will from the questions today—that there is a strong feeling on both sides of the House and in the country in favour of the proposition argued by my hon. Friend the Member for Oldham, West (Mr. Meacher)? While I recognise the difficulties and what has happened in the past, may I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman will request his colleagues in the Government to consider the position and, if need be, to set up a departmental inquiry into the whole question of concessions on television licences?

Sir J. Eden

There is no need to press me on this matter. It is because I share the feelings expressed in the House today that I caused the inquiry to be made.

10. Mr. Tebbit

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will now abolish the television licence fee.

13. Mr. Gurden

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will reduce the television licence fee.

Sir J. Eden

No, Sir.

Mr. Tebbit

In view of the brevity of that reply I hope I may have your indulgence, Mr. Speaker, to ask my right hon. Friend whether he agrees that the BBC would be placed in a less invidious position when dealing with controversial matters if it did not depend for its income on what is virtually a tax levied by Her Majesty's Government. Would he further agree that we would think it quite disgraceful if we had to purchase theBritish Gazettepublished by the Government to have the right to read theDaily Expressor for that matter theMorning Star? This is what is happening with the BBC licence fee.

Mr. Helier

Whatever is the hon. Member talking about?

Sir J. Eden

My hon. Friend will recognise that the dual system of operation, the financing of a broadcasting system by a licence fee and another system by advertising, has become established in this country. The future of broadcasting, including the method by which it should be financed, will be the subject of close study leading up to the post-1976 period.

Mr. Gurden

Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is a wide degree of opinion in support of what my hon. Friend the Member for Epping (Mr. Tebbit) has said? Is he further aware that this anti-British Broadcasting Cor-poration—

Hon. Members

Oh!

Mr. Heifer

Get back under your stone.

Mr. Gurden

—ought to consider its consumers a title more and that if it was competitive as are the ITV companies and operating under the same sanctions, it would have to listen to them?

Sir J. Eden

It is competitive with the ITV companies, and it is open to anybody to look at ITV and not at BBC television if he so chooses.

Mr. Edwin Wainwright

Will the right hon. Gentleman ignore entirely the supplementary questions of his hon. Friends? Does he realise that many of our senior citizens are in the lower income groups? Will he consider reducing the television licence fee by at least 50 per cent. for all retired people?

Sir J. Eden

The matter of the licence fee for old people is the subject of another Question on the Order Paper which I shall answer later.

Mr. Marten

Will my right hon. Friend consider how the licence fee is obtained —whether it is most efficiently obtained through the Post Office or whether it should be obtained through some other organisation at a much lower cost which could contribute to lowering the fee?

Sir J. Eden

I note my hon. Friend's suggestion. The cost of collection is about £9 million to yield a revenue of about £122 million.

Mr. Alfred Morris

Does the right lion. Gentleman agree that the BBC should receive a grant in aid in respect of its superb work in educational and, in particular. school broadcasting?

Sir J. Eden

There is a certain amount of uncertainty about grants in aid which I do not think the BBC would welcome.

28. Mr. Greville Janner

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what reply he has sent to the petition from residents of Leicester asking for a reduction in the television licence fee for retirement pensioners.

Sir J. Eden

I shall be confirming what I told the deputation which the hon. and learned Member brought to see me, that it has never been the policy of any Government to grant cheap licences to all retirement pensioners.

Mr. Janner

Is the Minister aware that television is no longer a luxury for elderly people, many of whom depend upon it for their sole companionship? Does he not think it grossly unfair that an elderly person living off his inadequate old-age pension should pay the same licence fee as a well-off person who has several television sets, one of which is probably a colour set? Will the Minister give new consideration to the views of the 18,000-odd signatories to the petition which representatives of the Leicester Old Folks Supporters Association and I presented to him?

Sir J. Eden

The right way to further the interests of retired people is through the medium of the cash benefits of the old-age pension and other social security formulæ.