NORTHERN IRELAND (Hansard, 16 March 1972)

§ Mr. Harold Wilson
I beg to ask leave to move the Adjournment of the House, under Standing Order No. 9, for the purpose of discussing a specific and important matter that should have urgent consideration, namely, the failure of the Government to announce the long-promised political initiative on Northern Ireland and the consequences and immediate dangers arising from that failure.

§ Mr. Chichester-Clark
Further to that point of order—

§ Mr. Speaker
The right hon. Member for Huyton (Mr. Harold Wilson)—and he gave me ample notice of the possibility of his making this application—seeks to move the Adjournment of the House under Standing Order No. 9 for the purpose of discussing a specific and important matter that he thinks should have urgent consideration, namely, the failure of the Government to announce the long-promised political initiative on Northern Ireland and the consequences and immediate dangers arising from that failure. Under the Standing Order I have to make a decision in these matters. It is not easy. But it is my judgment—and I have had ample time to consider this—that it would be proper for me to accede to the application. Therefore, there will be a debate on Monday from 3.30 p.m. for three hours in accordance with the normal procedure.

§ Sir H. Legge-Bourke
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I think it is customary that when leave is sought to move Standing Order No. 9 Motions no one knows your ruling, on which you sometimes ask for an opportunity for further consideration, until the actual moment of your announcement in the House. But it was common knowledge in the House last night—I think it even appeared on the tape machine—that you had been approached on the matter and that you would allow leave. I raise this point of order now only to ensure that in future situations do not arise in which in anticipation of your ruling in the House on an application under Standing Order No. 9 the decision becomes public knowledge.

§ Mr. Harold Wilson
I think the hon. Member for the Isle of Ely (Sir H. Legge-Bourke) is on a very serious point, and I very much agree with what he said. So 778 far as I am concerned, all that was put out last night—if I may use that phrase—was that I would seek your approval, Mr. Speaker, for a Standing Order No. 9 debate. Nothing was said on my behalf, nor with my authority, to indicate my hope of your acceptance because at that time when messages appeared in the Press and on the tape I had no idea whatever, and indeed I did not have until I raised the matter, that you would accede to this request. It is very important that this vital point which has been raised by the hon. Member should be properly understood. I certainly did not know, and did not have a right to know, whether you would accede to the request, Mr. Speaker, but I thought it right to inform hon. Members last night because of the demand for a censure Motion which was very much canvassed, that I should seek your ruling under Standing Order No. 9. Certainly no one on this side or that side of the House knew what your ruling would be.

§ Mr. English
On a point of order. There is an old adage that good cases make bad law, as you will know, Mr. Speaker. [Hon. Members: "Hard cases."] I hope, therefore, that you will not count this S.O.9 among the number which the Select Committee Report suggested that on average a Speaker should grant every year because, if that is so, it would obviously be the case that in future S.O.9 debates would become a prerogative of the Front Benches which have either Government time or Supply time. I am aware that the point I am making is purely procedural and is not related to this subject. Every hon. Member on this side of the House, I believe, wants this debate, but, as I say, very often good cases make bad law. [Hon. Members: "Hard cases."] So I hope that S.O.9 debates will not cease to be the prerogative of back-benchers as distinct from the Front Benches.

§ Mr. Speaker
I have noted the point raised by the hon. Member.

§ Mr. Michael McNair-Wilson
On a point of order. I think I should inform you, Mr. Speaker, that I was told categorically after lunch that you would accede to this request and that it had been settled through the usual channels. I merely make that statement as it was made to me.

§ Mr. Speaker
For the Chair it is helpful to have notice of intention to apply for a Standing Order No. 9 debate, or of any point of order at half-past three, to enable the Chair to consider the matter, but I assure the House that I had not formed the slightest intention even today of making up my mind finally until the actual moment when the request was made.
The point now is; does the right hon. Member have the leave of the House?

§ Mr. Speaker
Unless it is denied, it is quite unnecessary for anyone to stand.