North Atlantic Treaty Organisation

HC Deb 16 March 1972 vol 833 cc748-9

10. Miss Joan Hall

asked the Minister of State for Defence what is his estimate of the relative strengths of North Atlantic Treaty Organisation and Russian forces on the northern flank in terms of ground troops, air and sea forces, respectively.

Lord Balniel

It is impossible to quantify the relative strengths of these forces in simple terms. The area is vast, dispositions of forces can be changed rapidly and relative capabilities cannot be measured with any precision. However, the Warsaw Pact certainly has a substantial superiority in all three arms.

Miss Hall

I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply. May I draw his attention to the statement of General Sir Walter Walker, who has just retired from Norway, in which he says that on the northern flank N.A.T.O. forces are outnumbered by Russia by four to one in terms of ground troops, six to one in the air, and six to one at sea. Is my right hon. Friend aware that this causes great concern to many people in this country?

Lord Balniel

I am well aware of General Walker's recent remarks on the imbalance of forces in his late command. The position is that neither Norway nor Denmark will allow foreign troops or nuclear weapons to be stationed on their soil in peace time. The critical factor in that area, therefore, is the arrangements for reinforcements and the speed with which the area can be reinforced in a time of tension. This does not diminish the importance of the local forces in the area being strong enough to contain an immediate pre-emptive attack in order to enable our reinforcements to be deployed.

Mr. Latham

To what extent have the Government considered that the stated inferiority of N.A.T.O. in terms of conventional forces is compensated by superiority in nuclear weaponry? Do the Government agree that that is a frightening and dangerous situation? What steps are the Government likely to take to move away from that situation?

Lord Balniel

I find it very difficult to quantify the information that the hon. Gentleman requires. I am sure that we have the resources available in N.A.T.O. to sustain the policy of flexible response which has been the policy of both Governments.

Rear-Admiral Morgan-Giles

My right hon. Friend will know that a hydrographic ship of the Soviet Northern Fleet is due in the Pool of London for a visit beginning on Monday. In view of the disgraceful part played by the Soviet Embassy in the recent naval security case, will my right hon. Friend reconsider whether the visit is to be welcomed? If it takes place and the ship arrives, will my right hon. Friend keep a look out for the Assistant Soviet Naval Attaché peering into old beer cans up and down Tooley Street?

Lord Balniel

The conduct of the Soviet Naval Attaché and any comments referring to his conduct are matters for my right hon. Friend the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary.

Dr. David Owen

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that it does no service to the rational discussion of defence matters to exaggerate the extent of the threat, and will he undertake to look at recent Army recruiting advertisements in our national newspapers which talk of a two-to-one conventional superiority of Soviet forces in the central front and other simpliste figures? Will the right hon. Gentleman justify the figures in those advertisements?

Lord Balniel

I will justify them now. They are absolutely correct.