HC Deb 19 June 1972 vol 839 cc9-11
13. Mr. Gwynoro Jones

asked the Secretary of State for Wales if he is satisfied with the methods of control in existence to scrutinise Welsh Office expenditure; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Peter Thomas

As with all Departments, the Welsh Office accounts are subject to scrutiny by the Exchequer and Audit Department, certification by the Comptroller and Auditor General and examination by the Public Accounts Committee.

Mr. Jones

Will the Secretary of State not agree that the existing avenues open to Welsh Members of Parliament to investigate, scrutinise and study Welsh Office expenditure are very inadequate? Would he consider having a working party to consider Welsh Office expenditure, or that the Welsh Grand Committee or even an expenditure committee on the Welsh Office, should consider Welsh affairs?

Mr. Peter Thomas

That is another and very important question. I suggest that the hon. Gentleman puts down a specific Question on that matter if he wants a considered answer.

Mr. George Thomas

Is the Secretary of State aware that there is a very strong feeling that the time has come for the Welsh Grand Committee to be given greater responsibilities and that the investigation or consideration of Welsh Office expenditure is a vital field in which we could play a useful part?

Mr. Peter Thomas

I was not aware of that because, as the right hon. Gentleman will know, the Department's Votes are subject to examination by the Expenditure Committee, as are those of other Departments. I personally think that the system of scrutiny of Welsh Office expenditure at the moment is thoroughly adequate.

Mr. George Thomas

I must press the Secretary of State. Is he aware that Welsh Members, as Welsh Members, would like the opportunity to go into detail, in a way in which other hon. and right hon. Members of the House may not want to, on the question of expenditure in Wales, and does he not agree that this would be a useful further step in the participation of Welsh Members in our own Welsh affairs?

Mr. Peter Thomas

That question is similar to the supplementary question of the hon. Member for Carmarthen (Mr. Gwynoro Jones). As I say, this would be a very new departure and one which, obviously, would have to be considered carefully. Naturally, if the right hon. Gentleman tells me that views have been expressed by hon. Members that this is a question which should be considered, one would consider it, but it is one on which there should be a specific Question put down so that there can be a considered answer.