GOVERNMENT POLICIES (PRIME MINISTER'S SPEECH) (Hansard, 15 June 1972)

§ Q2. Mr. John D. Grant
asked the Prime Minister if he will place in the Library a copy of his public speech to the Conservative Women's Conference in London on 24th May concerning industrial relations.

§ Q3. Mr. Redmond
asked the Prime Minister if he will place in the Library a copy of the public speech he made to the Conservative Women's Conference on 24th May on future Government policy.

§ Q6. Sir Gilbert Longden
asked the Prime Minister if he will place in the Library a copy of his public speech to the Conservative Women's Conference on Wednesday, 24th May on Government policy.

§ Q9. Mr. Joel Barnett
asked the Prime Minister if he will place in the Library of the House of Commons a copy of his public speech to the Conservative Women's Conference in London on 24th May on prices.

§ Q13. Mr. St. John-Stevas
asked the Prime Minister whether he will place in the Library a copy of his public speech to the Conservative Women's Conference in London on 24th May on Government policies.

§ Q18. Mr. Leslie Huckfield
asked the Prime Minister whether he will place in the Library a copy of his public speech on 24th May in the Central Hall, Westminster, on his Government's fulfilment of their election pledges.

§ Q19. Mr. Meacher
asked the Prime Minister whether he will place in the Library a copy of his public speech on 24th May to the Conservative Women's Conference on Government policy.

§ Q20. Mr. Douglas
asked the Prime Minister if he will place a copy of his public speech on industrial relations to the Conservative Women's Conference on 24th May, 1972 in the Library.

§ Q21. Mr. Edwin Wainwright
asked the Prime Minister if he will now place in the Library a copy of his public speech given to the Conservative Women's Conference in London on 24th May, 1972, concerning Government policiis.

§ Q22. Mr. Clinton Davis
asked the Prime Minister if he will place in the Library a copy of the public speech which he made on 24th May, 1972, at the Conservative Women's Annual Conference in London on the subject of unemployment.

§ Q23. Mr. Bidwell
asked the Prime Minister if he will place a copy of his public speech made to the Conservative Women's Conference on 24th May, on Government policies in the Library.

§ Q24. Mr. Ashton
asked the Prime Minister whether he will place a copy of his public speech to the Conservative Women's Conference on Government policies on 24th May in the Library.

§ Q25. Mr. Skinner
asked the Prime Minister whether he will place a copy of his public speech made on 24th May, 1972, to the Conservative Women's Conference on Government policies in the Library.

§ Q27. Mr. David Stoddart
asked the Prime Minister if he will place a copy of his public speech to the Annual Conservative Women's Conference in London on 24th May on the Government's general policy in the Library.

§ Q29. Mr. Adley
asked the Prime Minister if he will place in the Library a copy of his public speech to the Conservative Women's Conference on 24th May on Government policies.

§ Q30. Mr. Tebbit
asked the Prime Minister if he will place in the Library a copy of his public speech to the Conservative Women's Conference on 24th May about Government policy.

§ Q32. Mr. Bishop
asked the Prime Minister if he will place in the Library a copy of his public speech to the Conservative Women's Annual Conference on 24th May on Government policies.

§ Q35. Mr. Peter Archer
asked the Prime Minister if he will place in the Library of the House of Commons a copy of his public speech to the Conservative Women's Conference on 24th May on violence.

§ The Prime Minister
In view of the considerable interest in this speech, especially from hon. Gentlemen opposite. I have placed a substantial number of copies in the Library, which have been available since 25th and 26th May.

§ Mr. C. Pannell
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Before you allow the Prime Minister to deal with all the supplementary questions which will arise on the large number of Questions which are being taken together, I am sure it escaped your notice that on the previous Question which concerned a point of law my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for West Ham, South (Sir Elwyn Jones), the former Attorney-General, rose from the Front British industry are, namely on the Treasury Benches—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. That is not a point of order.

§ Mr. Grant
However many copies the Prime Minister puts in the Library, it will not make the speech any better. Does he recall that in that speech he spoke of the need for straight talking with the trade unions? As a result of the events of this week, the sequel to the rail pay ballot fiasco, the Appeal Court decision and the powder keg situation arising in the docks as a result of the industrial relations verdict, it is becoming increasingly apparent where the wildcats in 1723 British industry are, namely on the Treasury Benches—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. The House is in a difficult position because the Prime Minister is answering together a great many Questions. I have no intention of allowing the Prime Minister's Question Time to be extended beyond a reasonable limit. The longer the supplementaries, the fewer hon. Members will get in.

§ Mr. Grant
Does not the Prime Minister recognise that the longer the Act goes on, the more it will throttle any prospect of an improvement in industrial relations? When will he jettison the Act?

§ The Prime Minister
I cannot accept the hon. Gentleman's analysis. Mr. Victor Feather and I are in agreement that there should be frank talking about these problems and he accepted my invitation to do so.

§ Mr. Redmond
Was it not typical that when my right hon. Friend made his speech about future policy, the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition was making a speech at a seaside resort about past policy? Is it not possible to negotiate terms whereby future incomes policy gives preference to the lower paid, thereby helping the people who need help without having very much effect on the cost of living?

§ The Prime Minister
This is one of the big questions which must be settled in industrial relations and in wage negotiations. I know that some members of the TUC are very much aware of this and believe that there need to be priorities if the total wage bill in the economy is not to create inflation.

§ Mr. Barnett
As the Prime Minister contemplates the ruins of his policy on inflation, will he give a direct answer to the crucial question whether he will impose a freeze on prices, rents and dividends in any circumstances?

§ The Prime Minister
I do not accept the hon. Gentleman's allegations, and the questions do not therefore arise. Why should the hon. Gentleman wish to have a freeze in certain respects? This surely must be the most unjustifiable of all suggestions.

§ Sir Gilbert Longden
Though it may be necessary to introduce some more 1724 effective measures to control inflation, which is a cruel disease that hits the poorest hardest, will my right hon. Friend agree that any imposition of a statutory wages and prices freeze would simply lead to a horde of snooping enforcement officers and to a resurrection of the black market, and in any case would be no permanent solution.

§ The Prime Minister
The disadvantages my hon. Friend has outlined could arise in that situation. As the House saw, the trade unions were bitterly opposed to this course on the last occasion it was introduced, and the Labour Administration completely abandoned either a freeze or any sort of statutory policy.

§ Mr. Huckfield
Is the Prime Minister aware that one plank of Conservative Party policies at the General Election involved the question of open government? We all know from the leading story in today's Guardian that we obviously have the most open government in the world. Although the situation may have improved since the first Guardian exposure, will he do something to improve on the sloppy assurances on confidentiality which I have been given by every Minister I have questioned on this matter in the past two years?

§ The Prime Minister
It is a little ungracious of the hon. Gentleman to make those remarks. When the allegations were made, I immediately instituted the fullest inquiries and as a result action has been taken in the courts. The story, to which I understand the hon. Gentleman is referring, showed that as a result of the inquiries I ordered to be made further breaches are alleged to have taken place. These will be dealt with in the normal manner.

§ Mr. Meacher
Since in that speech the Prime Minister said that he did not want people to exist on miserably low wages, what has he done for the one million working families below the tax threshold who do not get the benefit of the £1 a week income tax reduction and only 7 per cent. of whom receive family income supplement? Why has he done precisely nothing for the remaining 93 per cent. of the population when in the Budget the Government gave on average to each of the million richest families an extra£300 a year?

§ The Prime Minister
As the hon. Gentleman knows, all working families receive a tax remission, which my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer introduced in his Budget—[HON. Members: "No."] Yes, they did. The hon. Gentleman was asking about those who did not; they are eligible for family income supplement—[Hon. Members: "No."]—in certain cases. For the rest, I have indicated that the Government are prepared to consider a policy in which the lower-paid workers should be the ones to benefit first.

§ Mr. St. John-Stevas
Contrary to any question of the Government's anti-inflation policy being in ruins, have not over half the settlements in the public sector since Wilberforce been under 8 per cent., with an average of 9 per cent? Does this not indicate a considerable success for a policy which is being pursued in the interests of the nation?

§ The Prime Minister
Yes, Sir; the Chancellor of the Exchequer gave the figures last Saturday. I recall that there were35 settlements in the public sector since Wilberforce, excluding two affecting the coalmining industry. The average rate of settlement was 9 per cent. The Director-General of the CBI has said that the public sector settlements are higher than settlements in the private sector. Therefore, this refutes the argument that the public sector is being used as an example to the private sector.

§ Mr. Douglas
Would the right hon. Gentleman not concede that it is important for any Government to produce a climate of good social policy if they want to get the co-operation of the trade unions? Does he not agree that what he should do in the present context is to withdraw both the Housing Finance (Scotland) Bill and its English equivalent, the Housing Finance Bill?

§ The Prime Minister
No, Sir, I do not accept that. I would agree with the hon. Gentleman about seeking the right social climate, and all parties have a part to play in that respect. I do not propose to withdraw the arrangements for rent rebates, which are an essential part of the Housing Finance Bill.

§ Mr. Wainwright
Does the Prime Minister recall that in his speech he said 1726 that in less than two years the Government had carried out, or brought to a decision, all the important measures in their election programme? Does that mean that the Prime Minister is proud of what the Government have done in the last two years, or was he joking? If he was joking, will he not bring to the test the Government's popularity by calling a general election, which will give a clear indication of which party the people to see in government?

§ The Prime Minister
I can answer that quite quickly. I am immensely proud.

§ Mr. Clinton Davis
Since the Prime Minister has evinced such optimism about the question of unemployment, will he give an undertaking that by the end of this year the figures will be appreciably lower than the still very serious figures of unemployment today?

§ The Prime Minister
We have taken measures, which we think were right, to deal with unemployment, and it is now evident that they are having an effect. The hon. Gentleman must wait and see how the progress goes.

§ Mr. Bidwell
Is the right hon. Gentleman, like his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Employment, a Daily Mirror reader and, if so, has he seen in today's edition an article which says that unless inflation is curbed it will wreck the national economy and impoverish everyone except the rich? Further, I am sure that as a Daily Telegraph reader, he will have seen today's cartoon which recalls the two occasions on which he failed to apply the brakes? Would it not be better to have the General Election at which he hinted in his speech to the Conservative Women's Conference?

§ The Prime Minister
I am delighted to see any article in a newspaper that calls attention to the dangers of inflation. One then wants support for our measures which are containing inflation and reducing it.

§ Mr. Kinsey
The Prime Minister in his speech said that settlements should be in the interest of the consumer and the community. This is not the case in the latest settlement with the railway workers and I hope that we shall recognise that we are causing higher prices for 1727 the housewife and, if the trend continues, also pricing ourselves out of world markets.

§ The Prime Minister
Yes, of course, inflationary settlements affect export prices and can be damaging. It is unnecessary to exaggerate that, because we can compare our own prices with those of other countries. The expectation of the British industrialist, as shown in the last CBI survey, is that exports will increase. If there are inflationary settlements there is a real danger, and that is why we are continuing to fight them.

§ Mr. Ashton
When the Prime Minister was talking to the Conservative house wives and reminding them of all he has done in the last two years, did he also remind them of what he said during the General Election about a 15p loaf if a Labour Government were elected to power? In view of the fact that a Conservative Government were elected, will he revise that estimate and say how much a loaf will cost by the time of the next election?

§ The Prime Minister
The housewives at the party conference fully approved of what I said.

§ Dame Irene Ward
Would my right hon. Friend accept how wise he was to make a speech of this kind to women who are absolutely fed up—[Hon. Members: "Hear, hear."] The women are basically fed up—[Hon. Members: "Hear, hear."]—are basically fed up—

Hon. Members
Hear, hear.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. This exuberance is limiting the number of supplementaries that I shall be able to allow.

§ Dame Irene Ward
May I ask my right hon. Friend whether he is aware how very grateful the women were that he made his speech to them, because they are fed up—[Hon. Members: "Hear, hear."]—with the continual action of the left-wing of the Labour Party, which wants to ruin the country?

§ The Prime Minister
I take it from what my hon. Friend says that the women are fed up with the lack of any suitable policies from the Labour Party. They are absolutely right.

§ Mr. Skinner
As for carrying out all his election pledges to the point of deci- 1728 sion within two years, has not the right hon. Gentleman forgotten the two most important of all—"full-hearted consent "and" at a stroke"? Are we to assume that these are very good examples of the much-maligned "instant think"?

§ The Prime Minister
As this House gave its authority to the European policy by a majority of 112 on a free vote before the Labour Party was gagged, there can be no question about the consent of the House for that policy. What is more, when my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer slashed purchase tax and halved SET, he certainly reduced prices at a stroke.

§ Mr. Stoddart
In that speech which the Prime Minister has placed in the Library he said, he will recall, that he had completed his programme in two years. Is he aware that many people are saying that they hope that he will go now before calamity becomes catastrophe? However, more to the point, bearing in mind that there is so much more time left to him, will he say why he is guillotining the European Communities Bill with such indecent haste?

§ The Prime Minister
Our whole European policy, the negotiations and the Bill are being debated at greater length than any Bill since, probably, the Finance Bill of 1910–11. The hon. Gentleman cannot have any objection.

§ Mr. John E. B. Hill
In order to relieve the uncertainties and anxieties of right hon. Gentlemen opposite, will my right hon. Friend give an assurance that in future he will guarantee to place sufficient copies of his speeches in the Library in order that the Order Paper may contain Questions of more specific interests on these important topics?

§ The Prime Minister
It is a matter for the House as a whole whether it wishes hon. Members to go on tabling Questions of this kind or to deal with matters of substance.

§ Mr. Harold Wilson
The right hon. Gentleman said that purchase tax cuts have reduced prices. Did he see the figures published last Sunday showing that over the greater range of purchase tax cuts prices have remained the same or since risen? Secondly, as all these supplementaries are about the right hon. 1729 Gentleman's speech to the Conservative housewives in London, will he agree to place in the Library a copy of his speech in June, 1970, to the housewives of Leicester about all the prices that he proposed to reduce during that period? Thirdly, when the right hon. Gentleman refers to incomes polices, does he recall that 16 months ago the Trades Union Congress put before him proposals for a price-related threshold incomes policy? After 16 months, can he say whether he has accepted that, rejected it, or is he still stalling on it?

§ The Prime Minister
As to the last part of the right hon. Gentleman' squestion, the subject of threshold agreements has been discussed with the TUC, with the CBI and in the NEDC on a number of occasions. The TUC has discussed it with me. The TUC is not itself agreed about threshold agreements. We have said that we are prepared to examine and consider them in whatever way the TUC wishes to put them forward. This is a serious matter. There is no delay on the part of the Government. But there has been no agreement among the TUC in the talks that they have had with me about threshold agreements, and TUC members have said so frankly. The Government cannot be committed to that sort of approach.

§ Mr. Wilson
Will the right hon. Gentleman answer the other two questions that I put to him about purchase tax and the figures published last Sunday and about whether he will put a copy of his Leicester speech in the Library?

§ The Prime Minister
I am prepared to put copies of any of my speeches in the Library. They are all on record. As for purchase tax reductions, figures in the Press show the reductions in prices as a result of these purchase tax cuts. The right hon. Gentleman's criticisms of this Administration will become more credible when he ceases to support every inflationary wage claim, no matter how large.

Several Hon. Members
rose—

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. Mr. Wilson. Business questions.