HC Deb 27 July 1972 vol 841 cc2031-3
6. Mr. Thomas Cox

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what was the total value in money terms of prison contracts involving the use of prison labour granted to the Prison Department in each of the last five years.

Mr. Carlisle

The approximate value of contracts carried out by the use of prison labour in industrial workshops in England and Wales, in each of the last five years for which figures are available, was:

£ million
1967–68 2.52
1968–69 2.79
969–70 3.02
1970–71 4.03
1971–72 4.73
Mr. Cox

I thank the hon. and learned Gentleman for that reply. I am sure that he is aware of the excellent work recently undertaken at Wandsworth Prison where part of the prison has been modernised by the use of prison labour and where the work has been done far more efficiently and far more quickly than private contractors would have been able to do it. Will he therefore impress upon his Department that prison labour should be used wherever possible within the service, especially for the repair and maintenance of prison officers' accommodation, which is in urgent need of attention?

Mr. Carlisle

I assure the hon. Gentleman that I fully appreciate what he says and that I share his view about the use of inmate labour, particularly for building work in prisons. We are using inmate labour substantially in these respects and I have personally been involved in opening two prisons where inmate labour has been used in building prisons.

Mr. Kenneth Lewis

Would my hon. and learned Friend consider paying prisoners a little more, not giving them the money week by week but making it available to them when they come out, so that when they leave prison they may feel that they have something to keep them going for a while—something which has resulted from the increased work which they have undertaken?

Mr. Carlisle

This suggestion has been made on a number of occasions. As my hon. Friend knows, the amount paid to prisoners has recently been increased by a small amount. An encouraging feature about prison work generally is that it is far more widely available to prisoners than it was a few years ago, or a decade ago.

Mr. George Cunningham

Would the Minister of State also bear in mind that the rates at present payable mean that workshops for the elderly are undercut by prison labour doing simple labouring jobs, which means that workshops for the elderly find it difficult to get enough work to keep them going?

Mr. Carlisle

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will appreciate that we are always on a knife-edge, with the desire on the one side to provide adequate employment for prisoners and our concern on the other side to see that it does not detrimentally interfere with work done by people outside prisons. We are careful to ensure, first, that we do not get an undue proportion of any market and, secondly, that our rates do not undercut outside rates.

Mrs. Shirley Williams

Has the Minister of State considered the possibility of the practice applied in at least one other country by which prison labour is paid the full union rate but some is then deducted for lodging, accommodation and savings for when the prisoner leaves jail? I mention that because it is crucial in allowing prisoners to rehabilitate themselves.

Mr. Carlisle

Perhaps I should have pointed out to my hon. Friend that payments at the moment are in the form of pocket money, as prisoners do not pay anything towards their keep while in prison. We are anxious to see a situation in which prisoners, while in prison, are able to save more money towards their rehabilitation when they come out. That is a most sensible suggestion.