Clause 211 (Hansard, 20 July 1972)

§ Mr. Carlisle
I beg to move Amendment No. 1121, in page 152, line 27, after 'committees', insert: 'and in order to regulate the procedure of, and the rights of persons to attend before and make representations to, such committees and to 1049 transfer to the Lord Chancellor the responsibility for the payment of allowances to justices in respect of duties in the Crown Court' I suggest, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that it would be convenient to debate at the same time Government Amendments Nos. 1122, 1123 and 1166.

§ Mr. Deputy Speaker
Yes.

§ Mr. Carlisle
The purpose of these Amendments is two-fold, first, to enable the Home Secretary to make regulations governing the procedures of magistrates' courts committees and, in particular, the right of persons to attend before and make representations at such committees; and second, to transfer the responsibility for meeting the expenses of magistrates sitting in the Crown courts from local authorities to the Lord Chancellor's Department.
The regulation making power will meet the concern expressed in Committee by the hon. Member for Widnes (Mr. Oakes), and raised later with me by the justices' clerks, that in some areas the magistrates' courts committee does not consult justices' clerks before reaching decisions on matters which directly affect them. We believe that this difficulty can be met by a representative of the justices' clerks attending meetings. Many counties, for example, Lancashire, already do this, but some counties do not, despite a recommendation to that effect from the Central Council of Magistrates' Courts Committees.
My hon. Friend the Minister of State undertook in Committee to look into the matter, and, as I said, I have since received a deputation from the Justices' Clerks Society. The Amendments are the result of our deliberations.

§ Mr. Oakes
I am obliged to the Government for accepting the principle in these Amendments. I have one point only to put about the regulations. May we be assured that the right of attendance of the justices' clerk will apply not only to the committee but to subcommittees? It may sometimes happen that the committee proceedings are purely formal rubber-stamp proceedings whereas the sub-committee is where the real work is done. It is imperative that the justices' clerk should attend the sub-committee to give the detailed knowledge which he has to that sub-committee rather than attend merely at the formal committee itself.

§ Mr. Carlisle
May I have the leave of the House to speak again? That point has been raised also by the Justices' Clerks Society. I agree that it is important, but it can be dealt with by the regulations. We shall consult the Society before making the regulations, and there is no need further to amend the Bill.