HC Deb 19 July 1972 vol 841 cc606-8
24. Mr. Marten

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what plans he has now made to extend reduced television licence fees to all retired people.

Sir J. Eden

It has never been the policy of any Government to grant cheap licences to all retirement pensioners. As I said on 28th June in reply to the Question from my hon. Friend the Member for Worcestershire, South (Sir G. Nabarro), to reduce the licence fee to a nominal £1 per annum for pensioners would cost about £22 million a year. I have however decided to amend the terms of the old persons' homes licence so that it will extend not only to the old person himself but also to other members of his family living with him in the eligible accommodation. This change takes effect from today.—[Vol. 839, c. 339.]

Mr. Marten

I am sure that those who are affected by the change will be deeply grateful to my right hon. Friend for having done away with this curious provision. Now that he has started the ball rolling will he keep up the good work and perhaps consider granting some relief not to all old-age pensioners, as my hon. Friend the Member for Worcestershire, South (Sir G. Nabarro) has suggested and to which my right hon. Friend referred in his reply, but merely to those old-age pensioners who are on supplementary benefit, because the cost of the licence once a year to those people is very great?

Sir J. Eden

Widening the scope of any remission of the requirement to pay licence fee is, as my hon. Friend knows, the subject matter of a broad inquiry which I have initiated. My hon. Friend will be aware that the cost of his proposal would be of the order of £8 million a year.

Mr. Ashton

Will the Minister let me thank him quite sincerely for taking this action after the many letters I have sent to him? My constituent at Worksop who has a handicapped son living with her will be very grateful. Would it be possible for the right hon. Gentleman to place in post offices a list of the rules and regulations for pensioners pointing out who is entitled to a cheap licence and who is not? Such a step would clear up a great deal of misunderstanding.

Sir J. Eden

I will consider the suggestion and I am grateful to the hon. Member for having brought to my attention in the first place a particular case which enabled me to take the action I have announced today.

Mr. John Hall

I join hon. Members on both sides in welcoming this real but small concession. Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is a feeling of unfairness among many old-age pensioners that some of them living in certain types of accommodation are able to get cheap licences while others cannot? Is he looking at this matter in the course of this inquiry?

Sir J. Eden

I am aware of the feelings mentioned by my hon. Friend. One way of overcoming them would be to remove the existing concession which has led to the present anomalous situation but I cannot accept that that is what I would be counselled to do.

Mr. Gregor Mackenzie

While I welcome this small step forward, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman to help the House by giving us a definition of what he means by "eligible households" and an indication of how many people are involved? I am sure I speak for many hon. Members when I say that to deal with the problem in a piecemeal fashion does not get to the heart of it. We feel that with his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Services the right hon. Gentleman should propose a solution to the whole problem in the very near future.

Sir J. Eden

I accept that this will probably affect only a small number of people, because it will affect only those persons who are dependent upon retired people living in accommodation specifically designed for elderly persons which has a centrally-provided warden service and which therefore comes within the definition of "eligible accommodation".

26. Mr. Marks

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether partial refund of licence fee is made when viewers convert from colour to monochrome receivers.

Sir J. Eden

No. But refunds are allowed when, for whatever reason, a licence holder gives up using his set when his need for a licence has not exceeded 28 days.

Mr. Marks

I appreciate that such cases may be rare, but people sometimes convert from colour to monochrome—for example, when they retire and cannot maintain their colour sets or when they become unemployed. Is it not grossly unfair that a person should have to pay more when he converts to colour but gets no credit when he reverts to monochrome?

Sir J. Eden

The difficulty is that there are about 17 million licences in force and there are many reasons why refunds could be claimed. Once we set off along the road the hon. Gentleman suggests, it becomes a very costly operation to administer.