§ 35. Mr. Jesselasked the Minister for the Civil Service how many civil servants are employed by the Ministry of Defence; and what were the figures for comparable Ministries in 1942, 1952 and 1962.
§ The Parliamentary Secretary to the Civil Service Department (Mr. Kenneth Baker)The total number of United Kingdom-based staff employed by the Ministry of Defence on 1st April, 1972, was 275,000. The totals for 1st April, 1942, 1952 and 1962 for the Service and Supply Departments were 805,000 in 1942, 435,000 in 1952, and 364,000 in 1962.
§ Mr. JesselIs my hon. Friend aware that these figures show that at the height of the Second World War there was about one civil servant to every five or six members of the Armed Forces but that 612 now the ratio is about three civil servants to every four members of the Armed Forces? Does he think that these proportions are as they should be and will he see what he can do to bring about a gradual reduction in the number of civil servants employed in the Ministry of Defence?
§ Mr. BakerMy hon. Friend raises matters which should be directed to my noble Friend the Secretary of State for Defence. Suffice it to say that the proportion of serving personnel to civilians has improved since we have been in office, something to be associated with periods of Conservative rule. I should add that the fall in the number of United Kingdom civil servants employed in the Ministry of Defence since we have been in office is 10,386.
§ Mr. DalyellWhat is the improvement in the last two years?
§ Mr. BakerI have just given figures for the Ministry of Defence. There has been a drop of 10,386 in the number of civil servants employed in the Ministry of Defence.