HC Deb 19 July 1972 vol 841 cc589-91
1. Mr. Simon Mahon

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications how many persons are now employed by the national Giro; when this number can be expected to increase; and if he will make a statement.

The Minister of Posts and Telecommunications (Sir John Eden)

About 3,000. Future staffing levels are for the Post Office to determine.

Mr. Mahon

Do not those figures denote the efforts being made by the national Giro to make its service both profitable and viable, and would it not help the Minister and the Giro organisation if more local authorities, Government Departments and commercial interests saw the advantages of this great organisation and used them?

Sir J. Eden

The latter part of the hon. Gentleman's question is a matter for the interests themselves and for the Departments concerned. It is the aim of the management of Giro to keep its costs under proper control and to ensure a viable operation as quickly as possible.

Mr. Fell

I understand the reason for the Question tabled by the hon. Member for Bootle (Mr. Simon Mahon), but may I ask my right hon. Friend for an assurance that there will be no increase in staff unless the Giro system shows that it is certain to make a good profit?

Sir J. Eden

It is, as my hon. Friend will recognise, clearly a matter of concern to the management that it keeps costs in balance and it will, I have no doubt, watch this most carefully as the demand for Giro services increases.

Mr. Gregor Mackenzie

Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that if he allows Giro to remain as it is and does not take up the suggestions made by my hon. Friend the Member for Bootle (Mr. Simon Mahon) he will be doing it a great disservice? We are tired of people in this House knocking Giro, and it is about time the right hon. Gentleman did something positive to ensure that this valuable service was allowed to expand rather than stay as it is.

Sir J. Eden

I do not accept what the hon. Gentleman says. The Government have done something extremely positive about Giro, and since the decision was taken about its future both turnover and balances in the system have increased by 15 per cent.

9. Mr. Dempsey

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he is satisfied that the recent increases in Giro tariffs are enabling the Giro to meet the financial objective which they were introduced to realise; and if he will make a statement.

17. Mr. Bruce-Gardyne

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether it still remains his policy that the Giro experiment will be discontinued unless it is making a positive contribution to the overall finances of the Post Office Corporation by 1st July, 1973.

Sir J. Eden

It is too early to assess the effects of the tariff increases introduced on 1st July but I see no reason to anticipate that they will fail to meet the financial objective referred to.

Mr. Dempsey

I acknowledge the need for some increases to maintain our Giro system, but does the Minister realise that the cost of payment of a consumer's simple electricity account has risen from 4p to 10p and that this is paid by pensioners, people on the sick list, the unemployed and the lower wage earning classes? Does he consider that such increases should not be so steep but rather should be graded so that ordinary consumers can meet the cost more reasonably?

Sir J. Eden

It is terribly important that the aim of Giro should be to promote profitable growth with good service at economic prices. It must be for individual account holders to assess the value they attach to the services they receive.

Mr. Bruce-Gardyne

Can my right hon. Friend give a clear answer to my Question? Does it remain the Government's intention that the Giro must fulfil not only the long-term but the short-term objective set out, as we understand, by Cooper Brothers and Co. if it is perpetuated beyond next summer?

Sir J. Eden

I see no purpose in trying to anticipate what may be the position a year or five years from now. The Giro has been set an objective. We must encourage it to meet it.

Mr. Ewing

Will the Minister confirm the confidence that the Post Office staff has shown in the Giro to the extent that over 100,000 Post Office employees are now Giro account holders? If the Government were to follow this example it would ensure that the target set for Giro would be achieved in less than five years.

Sir J. Eden

As I indicated in answer to an earlier supplementary question on this subject, the number of account holders is increasing.

Mr. Fell

Can my right hon. Friend at least give some encouragement to the House in the matter of Giro meeting its objective? Can he tell us that there has been an increase in business since the increases in tariffs?

Sir J. Eden

It is much too early to do that. We must give it a chance to progress.