HC Deb 11 July 1972 vol 840 cc1402-4
Q4. Mr. St. John-Stevas

asked the Prime Minister whether the public speech made by the Secretary of State for Education on 23rd June to the Annual Conference of the Association of Education Committees on educational matters represents Government policy.

Q3. Mr. Clinton Davis

asked the Prime Minister if the public speech of the Secretary of State for Education and Science to the Conservative National Advisory Committee on Education in London on 24th June, 1972, on educational policies represents the policy of the Government.

The Prime Minister

My right hon. Friend's purpose in these two speeches was not to announce decisions but to set out the issues and choices in the future allocation of resources for the education service. It is the Government's policy to encourage public discussion of these important issues whenever possible.

Mr. St. John-Stevas

I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply. Is not the significance of the speech referred to in my Question that it constitutes a major contribution to open government, because my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science discussed in it the options and priorities open to the education service? May we see her example copied by other Ministers?

The Prime Minister

I understand that the speech was greatly appreciated by the Association, because it set out very clearly the forecast of various kinds of expenditure on the different options now available in the education service. I believe that in advance of the public expenditure White Papers this performs a very useful service. The answer to the last part of my hon. Friend's supplementary question is that the technique has already been adopted in taxation by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, as it has been in research and development, in health matters by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Services, and in other matters by other Ministers.

Mr. William Hamilton

Will the Prime Minister consider the possibility of each Department publishing a Green Paper on the respective priorities within it, in line with the speech made by the Secretary of State for Education and Science, which was very much appreciated, about the allocation of resources as between nursery education and further education? It would be a very useful exercise if all Departments would publish their own Green Papers to foster public discussion.

The Prime Minister

I agree with the hon. Gentleman. We have been considering this for all Government Departments, but the opportunity does not occur in the life of a Department at exactly the same moment for each one. There will be certain points on which policy decisions must be taken earlier, though it is very useful to give the public the options and choices and to state what expenditure will be involved in each.

Mr. John E. B. Hill

Does not my right hon. Friend agree that, even granted a greater measure of educational efficiency, it is implicit in the figures which my right hon. Friend gave in her speech that education will have to take a somewhat larger share of public expenditure in future, particularly if we are to achieve a better balance between pre- and post-school education?

The Prime Minister

As I think my hon. Friend knows—he has probably read the speech in full—my right hon. Friend gave the extent to which educational expenditure had increased and indicated that there would be great demands on Government expenditure for further developments. Her point was, I think, that obviously not all those developments could be carried out at the same time, and she indicated that a great emphasis should be given to younger children. The need for this had been shown by a number of recent inquiries.

Mr. Douglas

Does the Prime Minister concede that we should be very careful in looking in terms of priorities at the extension of the Open University to take 18-plus pupils, which was not within the general concept of that institution when it was formed?

The Prime Minister

That is a point which is new to me, because, as the hon. Gentleman says, that was not the purpose of the Open University when it was set up. Nevertheless, it could well be looked at, and I will certainly arrange for that to be done.

Mr. Harold Wilson

On the question of the Open University, is the Prime Minister aware that a figure of about 700 or 800 has been put into the 18-years category? Is he aware that this side of the House is very pleased that the Open University has been maintained? It is proving a tremendous success, but there is anxiety, both within it and more widely in universities, as shown by the resolution of the Association of University Teachers, that it will be used to economise on what would be the required expansion of more traditional universities?

The Prime Minister

I have seen that anxiety expressed. One of the purposes of my right hon. Friend's speech was to point out the various implications of continuing the Robbins principles as they were originally set out in the Commission's Report, on various assumptions about university entry, and the impact of those on Government expenditure. That was one of the issues about which my right hon. Friend wanted to have public discussion.