HC Deb 06 July 1972 vol 840 cc730-3
9. Mr. Stratton Mills

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what criteria are used by him in deciding on the release of internees.

Mr. Whitelaw

I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer given on 18th May to a Question by the hon. Member for Walthamstow, East (Mr. Michael McNair-Wilson).—[Vol. 837, c. 193.]

Mr. Mills

Would my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State make the matter clear and expand a little on his answer in giving the House the criteria upon which he operates? Is it that he believes that the people who are being released are comparatively small fish in the IRA set-up, or does he believe that they are unlikely to return to illegal acts?

Mr. Whitelaw

I take into consideration all the circumstances in every case—the circumstances of the situation in the area into which the people I might release would return and, indeed, the circumstances of each individual case. It is probably fair to point out that of the people I have released from internment, two men have appeared in court in connection with armed robbery charges; their cases were dismissed. A third released internee has been arrested for the possession of arms, and his case is continuing. That is the position in relation to the total number of internees I have released.

Mr. Orme

We note that one of the demands by the UDA related to the release of internees and that this—together with a complaint about no-go areas—was one of the reasons for the UDA's actions last weekend. Has the Secretary of State made it very clear to the UDA that any precipitate action which would involve the British Army could lead to serious trouble and that on this side of the water there is increasing alarm particularly about the drilling and marching that is going on? Many people feel that this does not represent the majority view of the Protestant community in the North.

Mr. Whitelaw

I know nothing about internment being related to the demands of the UDA. I accept that the question of the no-go areas was related to the demands but not, as far as I know, internment. I am particularly anxious to do nothing which would excite a difficult situation. But I must make it perfectly clear beyond any doubt whatsoever that, whatever may be their feelings of anger and frustration, those who confront the British Government also confront the security forces of the Crown because they are one and the same thing and cannot be divided. It is very important that everyone should understand that I have my responsibilities in the matter for the way in which the security forces work. But I do not want anyone to be under any illusion in believing that under the British constitution there can be any difference between the British Government and the British forces of the Crown.

Captain Orr

Is my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State aware that while no one who values parliamentary Government and parliamentary institutions could for a moment contemplate with pleasure any idea of armed forces not under the control of the Crown, nonetheless the position is—and it should be one of the criteria involved—that the IRA has not surrendered personnel, arms or territory? It is not surprising, therefore, if other armed forces outside the control of the Crown appear. Surely the proper way to approach the matter is to see that all unlawful armies are brought to an end.

Mr. Whitelaw

I agree with my hon. and gallant Friend. I am rather shaken to hear his suggestion that other armed forces have appeared because I thought it had been the contention of the UDA—and I sincerely hope that it has—that the UDA has not been armed. I am very anxious to see an end to all unlawful armies and unlawful areas. In the weeks that I have had this trouble, I have succeeded in getting four of the barricades in the Bogside and the Creggan pulled down, including a major one at the Rossville Flats, which a great many hon. Members said that I would never get down in any circumstances. I have done it, and I believe that I would get more done were it not for the fear engendered by other activities.

Mr. McManus

Returning to the specific subject of internment, will the right hon. Gentleman answer two simple and straightforward questions? First, quite apart from whatever moneys can be extorted through the courts by released internees, what plans is he preparing to compensate released internees on compassionate grounds and for loss of earnings and wages? Secondly, will he end the speculation and torment that internees are experiencing and set and announce a firm date for the complete ending of internment?

Mr. Whitelaw

The answer to the second question is, "No". All these matters must remain within my judgment. On compensation the answer is, "No". The hon. Member referred to various cases in the courts which related to incidents which happened at the time of internment and for which at that stage I was in no way responsible.