HC Deb 31 January 1972 vol 830 cc21-3
27. Mr. Alec Jones

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many local authorities in Wales have now supported his proposals to divide Glamorgan into three new counties; and how many local authorities now oppose them.

Mr. Peter Thomas

Four local authorities, all in South Wales, have so far indicated support for the division into three counties. Thirty-nine local authorities, including two in North Wales, have told me that they oppose the provisions for Glamorgan in the Local Government Bill. Two of these, however, suggest a different three-way division.

Mr. Jones

Does the Secretary of State not recall that during the Second Reading of the Local Government Bill he informed the House that some 40 local authorities supported his recommendation for South-East Glamorgan, and does he not agree that obviously this is just not true, as many of us said at the time? Will he now take into consideration the wise advice that is being given to him by the local authorities in that area and revert to a two-county set-up in the County of Glamorgan?

Mr. Peter Thomas

It is difficult for me to take the advice of local authorities. Of the 39 local authorities which I mentioned in my answer, one-third are parish councils, and we must remember that the total number of local authorities in Wales is 1,076. The 39 authorities who have told me that they oppose my provisions must be compared with the 47 who supported the Cardiff Action Committee at the time of my Consultative Document.

Mr. George Thomas

But surely the right hon. and learned Gentleman will not wish further to mislead the House—as he has misled us about the 40-odd authorities who supported his proposals about Glamorgan. Will he take into account the fact that there is now a massive feeling of resentment against his proposals, which will destroy effective local government in Glamorganshire? Will he look again at the situation before these matters are reached in the Standing Committee?

Mr. Peter Thomas

The matter is at the moment being considered in the Standing Committee, and this is not the time for me to say anything about it. It will be debated there. As for the figures, all I can say is that 47 local authorities supported the Cardiff Action Committee at the time of my Consultative Document.

Mr. George Thomas

The Secretary of State said that 47 authorities supported him. He led the House to believe that he had been in touch with these authorities, whereas it has since been revealed that he took all his evidence from the biased Cardiff Action Committee and had not even investigated whether the figures he gave to the House were right at the time he gave them.

Mr. Peter Thomas

If I saw that certain local authorities had supported the Cardiff Action Committee, I was entitled to infer from that fact that they were opposed to my proposals in the Consultative Document. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, I gained little support from him or from his hon. Friends, and indeed from local authorities generally, for my proposals in regard to Glamorgan in the Consultative Document. They are now trying to say that they wish to support my original proposals. At the time of the Consultative Document, they opposed them.