HC Deb 26 January 1972 vol 829 cc1382-4
24. Mr. J. H. Osborn

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment in what main areas he proposes to seek to influence the formulation of European Economic Community transport policy; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Peyton

In the economic regulation of transport and the environmental aspects of transport policy, including lorry weights.

Mr. Osborn

Is my right hon. Friend satisfied, following the statement he gave in The Times recently, that adequate consideration will be given to high British standards in all these fields and that we shall make an impact on European policy?

Mr. Peyton

Yes. I shall certainly do my best to ensure that this is so.

Mr. Arthur Lewis

Will the Minister confirm or deny that, come what may, the position is that none of the rules and regulations that have been agreed—the right hon. Gentleman will remember that I showed a parcel of them to the House the other day—is alterable or amendable by the Minister or by the House and that we must agree to them in toto?

Mr. Peyton

We have agreed to the rules already existing in the Community. That does not mean that those rules are not subject to discussion in the future.

Mr. Lewis

Discussion, but not amendment.

Mr. J. T. Price

Before we start talking about influencing European policy, will the Minister say what is the present policy of his Department with regard to large vehicles in Britain, even before we join the E.E.C.? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that very large numbers of articulated vehicles, which greatly exceed in length, size and weight the limits permitted under the Motor Vehicle (Construction and Use) Act, are infesting British roads? Many of them originate from as far afield as Eastern Europe. They are constantly passing North into Manchester and other places and are a complete nuisance and an offence against laws passed by the House of Commons.

Mr. Peyton

I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for reminding the House of this problem, which has existed for many years. A Bill which was recently introduced in another place has now reached this House and is designed to do precisely that for which the hon. Gentleman asks. I take it that that Bill will have the almost unanimous support of the House of Commons.

Sir R. Cary

I assume that we shall be allowed to keep our existing axle weights and that they will not be increased in line with those existing in the Common Market.

Mr. Peyton

The Community has not agreed on an axle weight. I believe that the retention of the 10-ton limit is very important indeed. There is no widespread agreement throughout the Continent of Europe on this important subject, but I think it essential that we should have in mind the strength of our roads and bridges and the vibration caused to ancient buildings by a heavy increase in the laden weights.

27. Mr. Pavitt

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment what is the difference between permitted axleweight and size of lorries in the countries of the European Economic Community compared with Great Britain; and, on the basis that carriers are to have mutual access, what is his estimate of the cost of strengthening the bridges of Great Britain to stand the additional loads.

Mr. Peyton

The European Economic Community has not yet agreed harmonised standards for vehicles weights and dimensions.

Mr. Pavitt

Will the Minister use his influence to ensure that we do not agree to the increase? Will he pay heed to the views expressed on both sides of the House and realise that the large articulated lorries now travelling on our roads are an abomination from the point of view of the nuisance they create and the number of decibels of sound they emit? Will the right hon. Gentleman make representations to the Government that this is likely to be one of the hidden costs of the bargain we have made and that there will be many others about which the House can only guess at the moment, as we are so short of information?

Mr. Peyton

I assure the hon. Gentleman that I take this matter very seriously. However, I hope that he will not go too far down the road in regarding all heavy lorries, wherever they are, as a nuisance. They make a very useful and valuable contribution to our transport system.