HC Deb 19 January 1972 vol 829 cc446-7
18. Sir G. Nabarro

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what loss of revenue occurred in 1971 due to combined television and broadcasting licences evasion; what estimate he has made of diminishing loss in 1972; and what additional methods of detection he now proposes.

Mr. Chataway

One million one hundred thousand evaders at 31st October, 1971, represented a loss of revenue of approximately £8.4 million. I am determined to bring this figure significantly down during the current campaign. Computerisation of the licensing system will lead to greater efficiency, making it easier to reduce evasion and keep it at a substantially lower level than hitherto.

Sir G. Nabarro

Has my right hon. Friend closed his mind to changing this wretched system which has resulted accumulatively in tens of millions of pounds being lost over the years and to which evidently no Minister is able to put a stop? Why not attach the licence fee for the whole length of life of television to a set on first sale with suitable arrangements for dealing with secondhand sets? It can be done easily by the retail machinery without going on with this expensive Post Office jiggery-pokery.

Mr. Chataway

My mind is not closed to alternatives but the disadvantage with that suggestion, which is one among many which have been considered, is that it would add enormously to the cost on sale.

Mr. Bob Brown

Does the Minister accept that he ought now to provide a concessionary licence fee for old-age pensioners? Otherwise an increasing proportion of the 1 million evaders will be old-age pensioners. Is he going to add to their misery by putting them into court?

Sir G. Nabarro

What about the blind?

Mr. Chataway

The concession to old-age pensioners would have to be met either from general taxation or by an increased licence fee to be paid by others. The view of the Government, as of previous Governments, is that benefits in kind of this sort are not the best way to help.

Mrs. Kellett-Bowman

Is my right hon. Friend aware how very strongly elderly people feel about this matter and that those in warden-controlled old people's dwellings already get televisison for the payment of a shilling a week? It is not beyond the capacity of the country to bear the sum of roughly £25 million which the concessionary rate for old-age pensioners would entail.

Mr. Chataway

The sum of £25 million would involve a substantial cut-back in the services of the B.B.C., an increase in the licence fee for all other subscribers of about £2 or, if the cost were met out of taxation, the forgoing of other substantial services.

Mr. Gregor Mackenzie

Is the Minister aware that we regard the loss of £8 million on licence dodging as unacceptably high? We would join with him in any means he can find to cut down this figure substantially. In view of the importance of this matter and the figures involved, will he assure us that when the campaign closes in the spring of this year he will come back to the House not only to give the results but with a few suggestions for dealing with the problem? I do not suggest that he should tell us the methods of detection, as suggested by his hon. Friend. However, if he would give an indication in his report, we should be grateful.

Mr. Chataway

A vigorous campaign is being conducted at the moment. I will do what I can to meet the hon. Gentleman's request.