HC Deb 23 February 1972 vol 831 cc1426-49

Bill to declare the law as to the legislative powers of the Parliament of Northern Ireland under Section 4(1) of the Government of Ireland Act, 1920, so far as relates to Her Majesty's forces and in particular to the conferment of powers, authorities, privileges or immunities on them, presented accordingly and read the First time and ordered to be printed. [Bill 89.]

Motion made, and Question put, That the Bill be now read a Second time.—[The Attorney-General.]

The House proceeded to a Division—

Mr. Speaker

Tellers for the Ayes, Mr. Goodhew and Mr. Fortescue. Teller for the Noes, Miss Devlin.

There being only one Teller for the Noes, Miss Devlin, I declare the Motion carried.

Bill accordingly read a Second time.

Bill committed to a Committee of the whole House.—[The Attorney-General.]

Bill immediately considered in Committee

[Sir ROBERT GRANT-FERRIS in the Chair]

The Chairman

Before I call Clause 1, I should tell the Committee that, owing to the extraordinary circumstances in which we are working, I have not been able officially to see any Amendments that hon. Members would like to move. Unofficially, of course, I have seen them, and I am grateful to hon. Members for the opportunity they have given me which has enabled me to have sufficient time to take advice and to see which I should and should not call. In fact, I shall be calling one Amendment to Clause 2. I thought the Committee would like to know that in advance in order to save hon. Members asking questions, so that we can get on with the debate. The copies of the Amendment are available now. It stands in the name of the right hon. Member for Devon, North (Mr. Thorpe).

Sir Elwyn Jones

On a point of order, Sir Robert. Where are the copies of the Amendments available?

The Chairman

They are available now in the Vote Office.

Mr. McNamara

On a point of order, Sir Robert. While hon. Members are obtaining copies of the Amendments, may we be assured that no progress will be made on the Bill?

The Chairman

No. The hon. Gentleman need feel no disquiet about this. The Amendment which I have selected is to Clause 2, and I am now about to call Clause 1 for discussion.

Mr. McNamara

Further to that point of order, Sir Robert. With the greatest respect, you said that the Amendment which you are calling is to Clause 2. We are about to deal with Clause 1. If the proposed Amendments which hon. Members have put forward, but which have been ruled out of order for a variety of reasons, were on the Order Paper, we should be able to read them and to see whether they raise points that we might wish to raise when discussing the Clause. Those of us who have been present in the previous debate have not had an opportunity of obtaining the Order Paper.

The Chairman

I am sure that there is a great deal of substance in what the hon. Gentleman says, but we are working under difficult circumstances. The hon. Gentleman can rest assured that the Amendment to Clause 2, which will shortly be in his hand, will not affect what might be said on Clause 1.

Mr. McNamara

Further to that point of order—

Mr. Clinton Davis

On a point of order, Sir Robert. I have been to the Vote Office, and no Amendments are yet available.

The Chairman

That is rather bad luck. I thought they were available. They will very shortly be available, I am sure.

Mr. Russell Kerr

May I move that the House be suspended for 15 minutes to enable hon. Members to see the Amendments?

The Chairman

I do not think I had better accept that. I may have to suspend perforce later, and I would rather not do it now.

10.15 p.m.

Mr. Alexander W. Lyon

On a point of order, Sir Robert. Would it help the House if you were to read out the only Amendment which you have selected so that we know what we are talking about?

The Chairman

I am obliged to the hon. Gentleman. The Amendment, when we get to it, is, in Clause 2, page 1, line 17, at the end add: (2) This Act shall expire one year after its passing. That is the Amendment in question.

Mr. McNamara

With respect, Mr. Chairman, the point I was raising was that, if manuscript Amendments have been tabled, whether you ruled them out of order or not, they would still be on the Order Paper and we should be able to see them. That they are out of order does not make them any more relevant to Clause 2 if they have been tabled to Clause 1.

The Chairman

The custom of the Committee, where we have these extraordinary circumstances, is that Amendments cannot be seen in the ordinary way because they cannot be printed. Technically, as I have explained, these Amendments existed only a few moments ago when the House gave the Bill a Second Reading and then went into Committee. I cannot help the hon. Gentleman, much as I should like to do so.

Mr. English

As we are dealing with a retrospective Bill. Sir Robert, may we have a retrospective Order Paper which will at least illustrate tomorrow morning all the Amendments which were tabled?

The Chairman

That is not possible because, when we have concluded the business of the Committee, nothing more can be done about it—I hope.

  1. Clause 1
      2. cc1429-34
    1. EFFECT OF GOVERNMENT OF IRELAND ACT 1920 s.4(1) PARA. (3) 1,791 words
  2. Clause 2
      3. cc1435-49
    1. SHORT TITLE 5,631 words, 1 division
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