HC Deb 09 February 1972 vol 830 cc1320-3
18. Mr. Golding

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications whether he will establish a committee of inquiry into the technical development of the Post Office.

20. Mr. Sheldon

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will make a statement on the modernisation of the telephone system and the introduction of new exchange systems.

24. Sir H. d'Avigdor-Goldsmid

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications what request he has received from the Post Office Board for his approval to investment of £400 million in a United States system of main exchange telephone equipment; and what action he proposes to take.

26. Mr. Gorst

asked the Minister of Posts and Telecommunications if he will set up an independent inquiry to advise him on the merits of the various telephone subscribing systems available before any final decision is taken on the investment of many millions of pounds of public money on exchange equipment required during the 1970's.

Mr. Chataway

I have not yet received proposals for investment in the next generation of telephone exchange equipment, but I am fully apprised of the issues involved and will ensure that the national interest is taken fully into account before any decision is reached.

Mr. Golding

Is the Minister aware that the Financial Times has revealed that manufacturers and the Financial Times itself are in possession of a document which discusses investment in the Post Office in the next generation? Will the Minister ensure that Members of Parliament are provided with such a document and plans for the spending of very many millions of pounds of public money on the modernisation of the telephone service?

Mr. Chataway

There are many documents passing between the Post Office and its major suppliers, and I recognise that this is an important matter which the House will wish to consider. Hon. Members will have an opportunity to discuss the future of the telecommunications system when, as I must within the next 12 months, I ask the House to extend my powers to finance the long-term investment programme. No decision will be taken on the next generation of exchange equipment before that date.

Mr. Sheldon

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it has been estimated that orders arising out of a decision to proceed with the TXE4 will involve £2,000 million? This is, therefore, a major decision which is being taken by the Post Office and concerns not only the Post Office but the whole nation. Does the right hon. Gentleman recall that on the last occasion when the Post Office was called upon to make a decision of this kind it arrived at the wrong one?

It is vital that the House and the country take part in a decision as important as this. Will the right hon. Gentleman release to the House the details of the discussions and the papers that are going forward between the Post Office and industry, which is disputing the claims of the Post Office in this matter?

Mr. Chataway

I am sure that on reflection the hon. Gentleman will agree that it would not be possible for any organisation to release all the documents that pass between it and its suppliers when there is need to reach a decision of this kind. However, I entirely agree about the importance of getting the decision right on this occasion. I believe that there are advantages in the structure we now have compared with the structure of former years. The ring having disappeared, the three suppliers are in a position to argue their different views to the Post Office. The Government, at arm's length from the Post Office, have a duty to come to independent decisions.

Sir H. d'Avigdor-Goldsmid

As the Select Committee on the Nationalised Industries will in the very near future want to take a good look at this matter, may I ask my right hon. Friend to consider taking the House rather more into his confidence on this absolutely vital matter?

Mr. Chataway

I certainly wish to take the House into my confidence in all appropriate ways and, of course, my Department will supply any information which the Select Committee may wish to have. I emphasise that there is no question of a sudden or final decision being taken in this matter. The Post Office is considering a number of alternatives and there is no question of a decision being taken before the end of this year.

Mr. Gorst

May I press on my right hon. Friend the desirability of his obtaining expert and independent advice from neutral sources before any decision is made on this very important matter which may involve the expenditure of many hundreds of millions of pounds over a period of years? Is he aware that the system which is employed eventually should be suitable for export, and that on past experience the Post Office is not necessarily the best judge of what is suitable for export?

Mr. Chataway

I agree that suitability for export is one of the more important criteria, but I do not believe that on a highly complex and technical issue of this kind, where so much of the expertise is concentrated in the manufacturers and the Post Office, an outside committee of inquiry is necessarily the best way to proceed.

Mr. J. T. Price

Is the Minister aware that in these short exchanges he has not gone nearly far enough to satisfy the apprehensions that exist on both sides about this matter? Is he not aware that when we decided, rightly or wrongly, some years ago by consensus politics in this House to set up the Post Office Corporation, an activity in which I took some part, we were not aware that we had gone much too far in hiving off major policy decisions from accountability to this House? Is the right hon. Gentleman therefore aware that he should not simply take refuge in the machinery that exists? Will he seriously reconsider this whole issue?

Mr. Chataway

The first responsibility for a decision of this kind of course rests with the Post Office Board, but I have responsibility for approving the Post Office investment programme and, of course, I am answerable to the House for those decisions. I confirm that today. I assure the hon. Gentleman that when, in due course, proposals are put to me, I shall consider them extremely carefully.