HC Deb 01 February 1972 vol 830 cc239-40
Mr. Speaker

I want to make a short statement to the House.

I have considered what happened yesterday. When strong feelings exist or are aroused there are times when the Chair can appropriately be deaf or indeed blind. In my view I went to the absolute limits of tolerance yesterday, perhaps beyond them. What I now want to make clear is that if an hon. Member uses unparliamentary language or acts in an unparliamentary manner and when ordered to refuses to withdraw or desist, I will not hesitate to act in accordance with the Standing Orders.

The reputation of the House and the position of the Chair are now at risk. That is something which I, so long as I am Speaker, cannot tolerate.

Later—

Mr. Paget

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I refer to the event which occurred following Question Time yesterday. Are you aware, Sir, that the hon. Lady concerned is reported to have said that she made no apology for her action but that, on the contrary, she proposed to repeat the action.

Mr. Speaker

Order. I am sorry, but I must interrupt the hon. and learned Gentleman. If he is commenting on the conduct of another Member, it must be by substantive Motion.

Mr. Paget

With respect, Mr. Speaker, whether this be a question of order or privilege—[An HON. MEMBER: "Sit down. You are stirring the pot"] That is precisely what I am doing. Whether this be a question of order or privilege, Mr. Speaker, comment on the conduct of another Member with regard to the order of this House is a matter to be made to you, Sir. This lady is reported as having said she did not apologise for her conduct, but proposed to repeat it. In those circumstances are we to tolerate this, and indeed are we to submit to this kind of violence by giving her priority of audience?

Mr. Speaker

So far as the future is concerned, the hon. and learned Member must be content with the statement I have made.

Mr. Biffen

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I do not wish to prolong this matter, but the statement which was made obviously will be written into the precedents of this House, and the right hon. Member for Leeds, West (Mr. C. Pannell) said that he hoped that you would add a footnote to Erskine May. May I point out that when a somewhat similar incident to yesterday's took place in May, 1938, Mr. Speaker Fitzroy on that occasion turned a blind eye and said he took into account the fact that Mr. Shinwell, as he then was, had apologised. I was wondering whether any indication had been given to you, Sir, of an apology by the hon. Member for Mid-Ulster (Miss Devlin).

Mr. Speaker

Order. We cannot pursue further the statement I made.

Sir D. Walker-Smith

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. May I respectfully ask you to acquaint the House whether, in view of the mandatory terms in which Standing Order No. 23 is cast, there is any precedent for not putting them into operation where no apology has been vouchsafed?

Mr. Speaker

I am afraid I must regard that as a comment on the conduct of the Chair. The way to deal with the matter is by Motion.

Sir H. Legge-Bourke

Though some of us in the past have incurred the displeasure of your predecessors—and I am by no means innocent in this regard—nevertheless, yesterday's performance was something which, had it been perpetrated outside the House, would have fully justified the police apprehending the offender. In this instance I know that you, Sir, have exercised a tolerance which has won the respect of us all, but may I say that we all have very much in mind the traditions of this House to ensure that there is freedom of debate, and we rely greatly on you to uphold that freedom. A procedure such as occurred yesterday inevitably will make grave inroads into that great tradition.

Mr. Speaker

I appreciate what the hon. Gentleman said. I have indicated the attitude I shall take in future. I hope in that I will have the support of the whole House.