HC Deb 04 December 1972 vol 847 cc892-5
15. Mr. Willey

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry whether he will make a statement on assistance to the British shipping industry for placing orders in British shipyards.

32. Mr. R. C. Mitchell

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry whether he has yet received proposals from the Chamber of Shipping and the Shipbuilders and Repairers National Association concerning the placing of more orders by the British shipping industry in British shipyards; and what action he proposes to take thereon.

Mr. Peter Walker

Consultations about the use of my selective powers under the Science and Technology Act and the Industry Act are continuing.

Mr. Willey

Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that this is bitterly disappointing to the shipbuilding industry? I appreciate his difficulties, but is he aware that in Sunderland we have contracts waiting to be signed which simply cannot be signed until the Government take a decision? Will the right hon. Gentleman consider another suggestion of mine: that he should set up a working group representing both industries, perhaps under the chairmanship of his Under-Secretary, to examine continuously the enormous importance of bringing British orders into British yards?

Mr. Walker

Certainly my right hon. Friend the Minister for Industrial Development is having practical discussions at present with both sides of industry. I am sure the right hon. Gentleman will agree that the important thing is to see that we do not give aid that results in substantially increased orders for Japanese shipyards. Therefore, talks are continuing on those lines.

Dame Irene Ward

Although I know that my right hon. Friend has many problems on his hands, is he aware that his answer is not very satisfactory for the industries concerned or for our men who want employment? How much longer will they and the House, and all workers and technicians concerned, have to wait? My right hon. Friend is a very speedy Minister. I hope that on this matter he will put on his skates and speed it up a little more.

Mr. Walker

We have already put proposals to both sides of the industry regarding high technology ships. In 1969, 69 per cent. of the tonnage ordered by United Kingdom shipping companies was placed abroad. In 1970 the figure was 82 per cent., and there were valid reasons for this. It is important to see that we use the Acts in such a way that we get the advantage of good management producing good ships.

Mr. Booth

Does the Secretary of State appreciate that the problem of ensuring that orders went to British shipyards rather than Japanese yards was tackled under the shipbuilding industry leglisation of the Labour Government and that the serious decline in orders by the British industry has taken place as a direct result of withdrawing investment grants? In the light of this, will the right hon. Gentleman make an early statement of Government policy in respect of the British shipping industry's ordering?

Mr. Walker

The fact is that in the last year of the Labour Government—1970—82 per cent. of orders went abroad.

Mr. Willey

On a point of order. In order to assist the Secretary of State, I give notice that I shall try to raise the matter on the Adjournment at the earliest opportunity.

39. Mr. Booth

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what gross tonnage of ships was ordered by United Kingdom shipping companies from United Kingdom shipyards in the last 12 months for which figures are available; and what tonnage was ordered in the last 12 months in which investment grants were available.

Mr. Chataway

The two figures are respectively: 0.3 million gross tons during the 12-month period ended September, 1972, and 1.3 million gross tons during the 12-month period ended October, 1970. There has in the same period been a susbtantial decline in world net new orders.

Mr. Booth

As those figures show that there has been a decline of more than 50 per cent. in the orders placed by British shipping companies with British yards, and as most of the British shipyards are in areas of very high unemployment, does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that it is urgent that measures should be taken by his Department, the Chamber of Shipping and the Confederation of Shipbuilding and Engineering Unions to restore some of the orders of British shipping companies to British yards?

Mr. Chataway

The House knows of the discussions which we have had with both those bodies and of the assistance which we have given to the shipbuilding industry. But the hon. Gentleman should take into account that the cost of shipping grants was over £300 million and that in the last year of their operation 82 per cent. of the orders went to foreign yards. Therefore, the scheme did far more good to foreign yards than it did to British yards.

Mr. Churchill

Will my right hon. Friend say whether the British taxpayer is being called upon to provide subsidies for small ships built for British owners in foreign yards—

Mr. Kaufman

Yachts.

Mr. Churchill

—while shipbuilding workers are unemployed in this country, particularly on the Manchester Ship Canal, in my constituency? If so, will he investigate the matter?

Mr. Chataway

My hon. Friend is probably referring to the scheme for fishing vessels which is administered by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. It is true that a small proportion of the ships for which grants are paid are built in foreign yards. We are subject to the GATT procedures, although there is a procedure which we administer to ensure that foreign competition is fair and that orders do not go abroad unless the competition is fair.