Concorde

HC Deb 07 August 1972 vol 842 cc1230-3

6. Mr. Edelman

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what communications he has received from the French Minister of Transport in connection with the budget for Concorde's future development.

Mr. Onslow

None, Sir.

Mr. Edelman

Is there not undue secrecy in this matter? Is the hon. Gentleman aware of the anxieties of the aero-engine workers in my constituency that an arrangement has been made with the French Minister of Transport to reduce the production of Concorde in the future? Will he give an assurance that this is not so?

Mr. Onslow

I assure the hon. Gentleman that it is a question not of undue secrecy but of undue anxiety. I know of no such approach.

31. Mr. Hunt

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry whether he is able to give an assurance that the Concorde simulator contract will be placed with a United Kingdom firm.

Mr. Onslow

All British manufacturers will be invited to tender and although I cannot anticipate the outcome of the evaluation of submission, I know that our industry is very competitive in this field.

Mr. Hunt

Will my hon. Friend go a litle further and agree that there is every justification for a British firm being awarded this contract on the basis both of our expertise and our balance of payments?

Mr. Onslow

I assure my hon. Friend that I am very hopeful that a British firm will put in a successful tender for this project. We have asked BOAC, which will be placing tenders, to keep us closely informed of progress.

Mr. Millan

Is it not the present intention that there should be a simulator only in France, so that BOAC will have to go to France for simulator training? Why should we not have simulator facilities here?

Mr. Onslow

The hon. Gentleman is wrong. It has been decided that the simulator will be situated in this country.

36. Mr. Mason

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry how many Concorde aircraft will have to be sold to recover research and development costs based solely upon numbers sold and their present price.

Mr. Onslow

We have already made clear that there is no prospect of recovering all the research and development costs on this aircraft but we shall make every effort to recoup as much as possible of the country's investment.

Mr. Mason

That is not the answer to the Question. Now will the hon. Gentleman give the answer to the Question? How many will be sold to recover research and development costs based solely upon the numbers sold and their present price either of £13 million at 1971 prices or £21½ million at 1974 prices? What is the figure? Why cannot the House be informed?

Mr. Onslow

The right hon. Gentleman asks for details of a levy which I assure him it would not be in the interests of the project to make public. If he is saying that he doubts the sales prospects of this aircraft, he is not doing anything to help us to recoup the country's investment. If the right hon. Gentle- man is saying that he would like more information on this subject, perhaps he would like to ask the House whether we can have a debate on the subject.

Mr. Mason

The hon. Gentleman knows full well that we on this side have questioned the Government vigorously over the last three months trying to extract information on the Concorde project, but we have failed so far. The Government are deliberately hiding facts and information regarding the Concorde project. We do not know the truth about the escalating costs of the project. The Select Committee on Expenditure chastised the Government and the Department on the subject. The hon. Gentleman and the Department are not kidding the airlines, because the airlines are doing their own arithmetic—

Mr. Speaker

Order. This is Question Time.

Mr. Mason

We have pressed for a debate, but will the hon. Gentleman now agree to publish a White Paper explaining the whole of the Concorde project—research and development costs, production costs and its likely sales?

Mr. Onslow

I have no knowledge that the right hon. Gentleman has pressed for a debate. He has been told that there will not be a White Paper. In answer to his question I must tell him again that it would not be in the interests of securing the best return on research and development to make public the rates of levy applied. I remind the right hon. Gentleman of the reply given by his right hon. Friend the Member for Bristol, South-East (Mr. Benn) on 26th January, 1970, when he showed that he was aware of the extreme difficulty of presenting meaningful estimates of this kind.

Mr. Michael McNair-Wilson

Is my hon. Friend aware that we consider the remarks of the right hon. Member for Barnsley (Mr. Mason) purely mischievous? The right hon. Gentleman was a member of the previous Administration which must have known that research and development costs could not and would not be got back from sales of the aircraft. Will my hon. Friend take note of the fact that many people feel that questions of this sort are designed purely to hurt Concorde at the moment of sales?

Mr. Onslow

I am sure that most people in this country and in France will have drawn their own conclusions from the right hon. Gentleman's suggestions. I think that people everywhere would welcome some positive indication of support from the right hon. Gentleman for this project.

Mr. Joel Barnett

Would the hon. Gentleman agree that in his original answer he misled the House by distorting the facts? He said that all the research and development costs would not be recouped. Will he say whether any of the costs will be recouped? Is he, in what he has just said, saying that his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State disagrees with the all-party report of the Expenditure Committee?

Mr. Onslow

I think the hon. Gentleman will find that if there are to be comments on that Committee's report they will not be made by me in the first instance at Question Time in the House but in the form of departmental observations, and quite rightly so. If the hon. Gentleman is so interested in the matter, no doubt he will go on putting down Questions of his own.