HC Deb 03 August 1972 vol 842 cc934-6
2. Mr. Mather

asked the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what talks he has recently held with representatives of the Ulster Defence Association.

Mr. Whitelaw

I met members of the Ulster Defence Association on 13th, 14th and 28th June, 1972.

Mr. Mather

Would not it be possible for the energies and activities of local defence organisations of whichever community to be recruited to the service of the Crown by the formation of a nonsectarian home guard to relieve the security forces of some of their burdens?

Mr. Whitelaw

In the first instance, I must make it clear that private armies, from wherever they may come, are a great danger to the State and must not be permitted. It was part of the operation conducted at the beginning of this week to see that that position stopped. There are ample opportunities for those who wish to serve the State in Northern Ireland. They can be recruited through the UDR, through the Reserve of the RUC, and into the RUC itself. I am ready to consider other methods by which people may protect themselves. But I believe that the paramount need is to increase and improve the value of the security forces as they are at present constituted.

Mr. Thorpe

The right hon. Gentleman will have seen the request from the Minister of Justice in the Republic that all arms should be handed in. It is to be hoped that the right hon. Gentleman will find it possible to have further talks with the UDA and other interested persons with a view to seek their co-operation so that he may make a similar announcement in the North.

Mr. Whitelaw

I think that we ought to be clear about the problem of arms. The problem in Northern Ireland is not licensed firearms but unlicensed firearms. The security forces are acting to try to find and to remove unlicensed arms wherever they may be found throughout the community. That is being done and has been done in the last few days. It is extremely important. When it comes to licensed firearms, I note what has been said by the Republic. They have exempted shotguns and airguns from their proposals. The figures in Northern Ireland are that there are 72,437 shotguns and 11,000 airguns out of a total of 104,000. I will look at this situation. However, the shotgun position, in an agricultural community, is a reasonable one—and one which even the Republic is not seeking to change.

Mr. Orme

Returning to the point about the UDA, will the Secretary of State say what steps he is taking to remove this para-military force, often hooded, from the streets of Belfast and other cities in Northern Ireland? Is he aware that many people in this country feel that it is about time that these people were removed, just as the Provisional IRA was removed?

Mr. Whitelaw

I have made my attitude to private armies of all sorts perfectly clear. Anyone wearing a para-military uniform can be proceeded against. I do not intend to allow it to continue.

Rev. Ian Paisley

Will the Secretary of State confirm that members of the UDA have not appeared in the streets of Belfast with guns in their hands and, therefore, that it is not fair to compare them with IRA men who have publicly justified their acts of violence and murder? Is not it a fact that the leaders of the UDA have condemned murder?

Mr. Whitelaw

Yes, it is. It is also fair—and I think that the hon. Gentleman will be the first to say so—that private armies of any sort do not aid the security situation in Northern Ireland. It is to that end that all our actions must be directed.