THE CONSUMERS' BODIES: SUPPLEMENTARY PROVISIONS (Hansard, 3 August 1972)

§ Mr. Emery
I beg to move, That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment.
It will, I think, be convenient also to discuss Amendment No. 9, in page 50, line 11, leave out "the said paragraph 2" and insert "those paragraphs".
These Amendments conveniently go together, because the second is consequential on the first. The Amendment makes it possible for the chairmen of the national and regional gas consumers' councils, if paid, to receive a pension in accordance with the determination of the Secretary of State made with the consent of the Minister for the Civil Service. At present the chairmen of the gas consultative councils could be paid a pension because they are ex officio part-time members of the area gas board.
However, it has not been general policy to pay pensions to part-time members of the public boards, and no pensions have been paid to part-time members of gas boards. It is now thought desirable not to let the possibility disappear. In other words, if we did not have these Amendments the possibility which exists under the present legislation would not be possible under the Bill when it becomes an Act.
The Government have no intention of altering the present situation whereby no pensions are paid to these part-time men and women who give great service to the community in serving as chairmen of what will be the consumers councils. However, it seemed to me absurd that we should not have the power to do so if their rôle changed in future or if circumstances altered. Without such a power, new legislation would have had to be introduced. This seemed to me to be a weakness in the Bill.

§ Mr. Arthur Palmer (Bristol, Central)
I do not think that their Lordships gave as much attention to consumer questions as we did in Committee and on Report. We on this side believe that the consumer councils were extremely important bodies and were likely, under the new structure 1094 of the industry, to be more important in future, particularly perhaps the new National Consumers' Council for the gas industry.
We argued in Committee that the chairman of the National Consumers' Council should be an outstanding individual with a status equal to that of members of the Gas Corporation. We believe that he should be strong enough and determined enough to stand up to the Gas Corporation. I went as far as to say that if salaries were being paid his salary should be no less than the salary of an ordinary member of the corporation.
In the event of the chairman of the consumers' council being displaced from office, the Bill provides, at the discretion of the Minister, that compensation may be paid him. That is reasonable, and I suppose that it is equally reasonable in some circumstances that there should be a provision in the legislation for a pension to be paid him. I concede that for the chairman of the national council, but I am not so sure that that is a good principle to follow in respect of the chairmen of the regional consumers' councils.
I do not think that one can be against this permissive power being included. However, in Committee we argued that the chairmen of the consultative councils should be elected. We felt that this would give them democratic authority and make them directly responsible to local public opinion. Clearly, in those circumstances it would not be appropriate for a pension even to be considered. I am still of the opinion that we do not want any interlocking of the fortunes of the chairmen of consumers' councils and those of the industry. If we provide pensions for them they will be confirmed in their standing in the industry and, in some circumstances, it might be difficult to get rid of them.
While we do not object to this power being in the legislation, in view of our earlier argument that the chairmen of consumers' councils should be responsible to their local consumers, we doubt whether we should make their lives so comfortable that they can look forward to pensions.
With those reflections, we raise no objection to the Amendment.

§ Mr. Emery
With the leave of the House, perhaps I might deal with one point raised by the hon. Member for Bristol, Central (Mr. Palmer).
Incidentally, Mr. Deputy Speaker, may I say what a pleasure it is to be under your chairmanship in the Chamber on what for me is the first time?
I go along with the hon. Member for Bristol, Central to some extent in that I do not see any position in which the chairman of a consumers' council would be pensioned. I agree that there is more argument for the chairman of the national consumers' council than there is for the chairmen of the area consumers' councils. I accept the hon. Gentleman's point. I thought that he would wish to know that.