Concorde

HC Deb 25 October 1971 vol 823 cc1204-7

6. Mr. Sheldon

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry if he will make a further statement on Concorde.

9. Mr. Adley

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry if he will make a further statement on the Concorde project.

24. Mr. Wall

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry if he will make a statement on the progress of the Concorde programme.

Mr. Corfield

The flight tests of the two prototype aircraft have continued to make satisfactory progress, and the first of the two pre-production aircraft is expected to fly shortly from Filton. Manufacture of the first 10 production aircraft and associated engines is in hand. All airline options due for renewal have been extended.

Mr. Sheldon

Does the right hon Gentleman mean that the go-ahead has been given? Will he give the latest estimate of the development costs and the total amount of money spent by the Government at this stage? Will he also say when he expects the options to be turned into firm orders? He said last October that they would be turned into firm orders by March or April of this year, What is the position now?

Mr. Corfield

As far as production is concerned, I have nothing to add to what I have previously told the House, namely, that the authorisation given some time ago for production is for the first 10 production aircraft and the purchase of long-dated materials for a further six. The total estimated costs remain, as last stated, at £885 million. If the hon. Gentleman wishes to know the precise amount spent by the Government at any particular time, perhaps he will put down a Question, and I will answer it. As far as options are concerned, I have made it clear throughout that I cannot guarantee orders. That is a matter for the airlines. All I have been able to tell the House is my estimate that the firm will be in a position to give firm specifications to the airline, and this, I hope, they will do in the next two or three months.

Mr. Adley

Would my right hon. Friend not agree that just to say that it is a matter for the airlines is not enough? I do not think that that is true. Would he not agree that there is a lesson to be learned from the RB-211 affair—that the airlines themselves will hesitate to place firm orders unless and until there is an absolute assurance that the Government back the product?

Mr. Corfield

I think that this is a chicken-and-egg argument. It could equally well be argued that a go-ahead for the production of a lot of aircraft to sit on the tarmac would not give a very good negotiating position.

Mr. Palmer

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the political existence of his hon. Friend the Member for Bristol, North-East (Mr. Adley) depends on the Minister giving rather more helpful answers to him than he is giving at the moment.

Mr. Corfield

I do not accept that. One has a dual responsibility here, both for the aircraft industry and for the taxpayer.

Sir R. Cary

Is there any chance of Concorde visiting Manchester Airport, as the runway has been extended?

Mr. Corfield

I have no plan for an exhibition of that sort at the moment.

Mr. Hugh Jenkins

How can the right hon. Gentleman give comfort to those who would like to see Concorde go into full production, because the facts simply do not justify any such comfort being given? Would the right hon. Gentleman confirm that reports recently in the Press suggesting that leaks from the Prime Minister's think tank put a favourable recommendation forward about Concorde in fact emanate from the public relations division of the British Aircraft Corporation?

Mr. Corfield

I do not accept the first part of the hon. Gentleman's supple- mentary, but the fact is that this is a very expensive aircraft, and it would be foolish and rash not to consider the market before making any statement. As far as the think tank is concerned, it is a matter for them and not for me.

Mr. Benn

Can the Minister tell us when the next Ministerial meeting will be held and when he expects to be able to give the go-ahead for the 10 orders for production, which has some bearing on the credibility of the project from the point of view of airline orders?

Mr. Corfield

I am in discussion with M. Chamant at the moment and the next meeting will probably be in November or, anyway, before the end of the year. As for the other part of the question, that will be discussed at that time, I have no doubt.

13. Mr. Hugh Jenkins

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what plans he now has for the future of Concorde, in view of the fact that the cost of producing 250 in ten years has been estimated at £21.2 million per aircraft and the selling price at no higher than £12 million per aircraft.

Mr. Corfield

The estimated costs of production quoted by the hon. Member are entirely incorrect. There is no intention to sell Concorde at a price which would result in a loss on production costs: no price has been fixed.

Mr. Jenkins

If the Minister thinks the figures I have quoted are incorrect, would he be kind enough to substitute his own figures so that we may know what the facts are?

Mr. Corfield

No, Sir.

Mr. Jenkins

Why not?

Mr. Wilkinson

If the price to the airlines is somewhat higher than the airlines would like to pay, would the Minister consider some form of leasing facility or financial arrangement to enable British and French airlines to get Concorde into service quickly?

Mr. Corfield

I have made it clear that I am prepared to consider any suggestions of that sort, but to announce prices now—even if I knew what they were going to be—would not be in the interests of the Concorde project.

Mr. Benn

A short time ago the Minister said he was awaiting orders from airlines. How can he do this if the airlines do not know the price they will have to pay? When will the Government give a price?

Mr. Corfield

The right hon. Gentleman either misheard me or misinterpreted what I said. I made it quite clear that I hoped that within two or three months the necessary firm specification, including price, would be available.