HC Deb 25 November 1971 vol 826 cc1567-70
Mr. Speaker

Yesterday the hon. Member for York (Mr. Alexander W. Lyon) raised two issues involving possible prima facie breaches of privilege. These were, first, the stopping of a constituent coming to see his Member at the door of the Palace of Westminster and, second, the arrest of a person who was seeking such access.

I have considered the precedents and I have to rule that, in my view, I should not be justified in allowing a Motion arising from either of these matters to take precedence over the business set down for today.

I have, however, carefully noted the various accounts of difficulties experienced yesterday. What happened outside the precincts of the House is not for me. As for events within the precincts, from such inquiries as I have made, I am informed that over 3,000 people were admitted to meet right hon. and hon. Members. That does not lead one to the conclusion that there was any real failure in the existing arrangements.

I propose, however, to ask the Services Committee to consider whether the arrangements can in any way he improved.

Mr. Orme

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Arising out of your statement, many Members—I speak at least for some Members on this side of the House—feel that a full inquiry should be carried out into what happened yesterday, and that, in consequence, not only should evidence be taken from Officers of the House but also from the police, the demonstrators and the stewards of the T.U.C., and that a report should be made to the House, not only to deal with what happened yesterday but to prevent anything like it happening again.

If it is not within your jurisdiction to direct that, Mr. Speaker, I ask the Leader of the House if he would ask his right hon. Friend the Home Secretary to set up such an inquiry so that a report could be made to the House, and so that facilities are such that lobbying in the future can be carried out in a peaceful, orderly and democratic manner.

The Lord President of the Council and Leader of the House of Commons (Mr. William Whitelaw)

Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of what you have said, may I, in my capacity as Chairman of the Services Committee, say that that Committee will naturally wish to look into all the matters concerning demonstrations in general inside the House where your responsibility, and so its advice to you, properly lies.

I think it is reasonable for me at this stage—the whole House will wish to join in this—to thank all the authorities of the House and, indeed, the police inside the House, for having made arrangements which enabled 3,000 constituents to meet their Members in the House. This was conducted in a most proper and peaceful manner, which reflected great credit on all those concerned. I believe that the House as a whole would wish to have that said.

As to what happened outside the House, I understand that my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary is at this moment awaiting a report, as is usual and proper, from the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, who is responsible under the Sessional Order for maintaining proper access to the House. That is the proper way of proceeding.

Mr. Orme

Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate what the Leader of the House has said, but we are not dealing with what happened in Committee Rooms or during the normal process of lobbying, when there was no difficulty. However, there were serious difficulties outside the House.

I recognise that the Home Secretary will consult the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, but many hon. Members believe that that is not sufficient and that there is a prima facie case for an inquiry, in the interests of the police and of the demonstrators. I urge the Leader of the House to ask the Home Secretary to set up such an inquiry.

Mr. Whitelaw

Further to that point of order. Naturally my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary has heard what the hon. Gentleman has said. It is only right that the customary report from the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police should be received.

Mr. C. Pannell

Further to the point of order, Mr. Speaker. Will the Leader of the House bear in mind that the House of Lords will have to be brought into this as well? I have a room overlooking that place and I had a grandstand view yesterday of St. Stephen's. The obstruction the police had to face was the car park of their Lordships' House. Will the Leader of the House bear in mind that, if a demonstration on the lines of that which occurred yesterday is contemplated in future, the whole of that car park should be cleared? The police were undoubtedly obstructed. The Sessional Order was abrogated because of the very nature of trying to seek entrance to this place. We cannot have the Sessional Order and their Lordships' car park. We must make up our minds. The important principle is the accessibility of constituents to their Members and vice versa. We must make different arrangements outside for this.

Mr. Whitelaw

Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker—if it is right for me to reply further. The right hon. Gentleman, who knows much about these matters, has raised rather wider issues than are either your responsibility, Mr. Speaker, or indeed those of the Services Committee in its capacity of advising you.

As these matters concern another place, I will have discussions with my noble Friend the Leader in another place and co-ordinate with him to see what can be done.

As to the Sessional Order, I am assured that, despite all the difficulties, access was preserved, which is a very important feature, because it is the Sessional Order of the House.

Several Hon. Members

rose

Mr. Speaker

Order. I want to protect the business of the House. There is a very important debate ahead. I know that hon. Members have strong feelings on this matter. I am wondering whether those who think it appropriate to do so would write to the Leader of the House about these points instead of raising them now.

Mr. Heffer

Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker. I am sorry that we have to pursue this matter now, especially as my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition wishes to make a very important statement to the House on the question of Ireland. However, events took place yesterday which were of the utmost importance. If events of that seriousness ever occurred outside the House again, it would be a disaster, and any recurrence should be avoided.

I ask that when the Home Secretary receives the report from the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police a report will be given to the House arising from that report, so that we can at least question it and put forward some positive proposals to avoid such events happening again.

Mr. Speaker

No doubt the right hon. Gentleman will have heard that point. I will not allow any more points of order relating to events outside the House.