HC Deb 25 November 1971 vol 826 cc1518-20
3. Mr. Frank Allaun

asked the Minister of State for Defence what are the most recent figures showing the share of the British gross national product devoted to military spending compared with that for other Western European countries in the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, and the approximate annual saving if the former were cut to the average proportion of the latter; and what steps he is taking towards such an equalisation.

Lord Balniel

Since the answer involves a number of figures, I will with permission circulate the details in the OFFICIAL REPORT. But on the latest available figures, Britain spent in 1970 5.7 per cent. of her gross national product on defence as compared with an average for N.A.T.O. Europe of 4.2 per cent. If British defence spending were cut to 4.2 per cent. of G.N.P., there would be a saving of the order of £600 million. The third part of the Question does not arise as this would be contrary to the stated aims of Her Majesty's Government in respect of defence on taking office.

Mr. Allaun

Does not the hon. Gentleman think that this £600 million could be spent on other and better things for the good of the country? Could he not go further and do as the French Government are doing in reducing the defence share of the French gross national product to 3 per cent. by 1975, since this would give us more than £950 million a year extra for the other things we need much more than this?

Lord Balniel

The criterion of what we should spend on defence depends not so much on what our allies are spending but on what potential adversaries are spending. If the hon. Gentleman is criticising the Government's social priorities, I advise him to study the White Paper on the subject which is being published this afternoon.

Mr. Onslow

Is my hon. Friend aware that although the views expressed by the hon. Member for Salford, East (Mr. Frank Allaun) may be widely shared on the other side of the Iron Curtain, they are not widely shared in this country? Will he agree that the country generally welcomes and supports the Government's action in bringing forward certain defence expenditure with great assistance to the unemployment areas?

Lord Balniel

My hon. Friend expresses a sentiment held by the vast majority of our people. He also echoes the pleasure at the fact that my Department is able to bring forward expenditure to assist employment in certain areas.

Mr. Allaun

On a point of order. I do not want to delay proceedings, Mr. Speaker, but there was an imputation in the remark of the hon. Member for Woking (Mr. Onslow). Since the point of view I was expressing has been held by the Pope, the leaders of the Soviet Government, leading American senators and a large number of hon. Members on this side of the House, should not the hon. Gentleman be asked to withdraw his remark?

Mr. George Thomson

The implications of the supplementary question by the hon. Member for Woking (Mr. Onslow) were extremely offensive, irrespective of whether they were in order. On the main point of the supplementary question by my hon. Friend the Member for Salford, East (Mr. Frank Allaun), is it not a fact that the Government have accepted the view of their predecessors that, broadly, our own defence expenditure should be at levels comparable with those of our European allies? Would it not be worthwhile, as an exercise in European co-operation, for the Government to try to bring this about?

Lord Balniel

If that were the case—and there is a great deal of strength in the point the right hon. Gentleman makes—he should bear in mind that German defence expenditure is already greater than ours and is increasing more rapidly than ours. That is a point which should be borne in mind by his hon. Friends.

Following are the details:—

Percentage of G.N.P. spent on defence—European members of N.A.T.O., 1970.

1970 % of G.N.P.
Belgium 3.1
Denmark 2.8
France 4.7
Greece 5.7
Holland 3.9
Italy 3.0
Luxembourg 0.9
Norway 3.9
Portugal 7.0
Turkey 4.9
United Kingdom 5.7
West Germany 3.7
N.A.T.O. Europe 4.2