HC Deb 23 November 1971 vol 826 cc1132-3
Q4. Mr. John Fraser

asked the Prime Minister whether he will seek support from the Prime Ministers of the Common Market countries to the Declaration of London made with the Italian President.

The Prime Minister

The present Government have reaffirmed their support for the Anglo-Italian declaration of April, 1969, the import of which is well known to the Governments of the other members of the European Communities.

Mr. Fraser

Does the Prime Minister recall that one of the phrases in that agreement was that the European Community should be sustained by a directly elected European Parliament? Will the Prime Minister say that it will be at least one of the conditions of the accession to the Treaty of Rome that there shall be direct elections to that Parliament so that the power to raise taxation and the power to make laws does not pass from a democratically-elected assembly such as this to an assembly which is not responsible to a directly-elected or democratically-constituted body?

The Prime Minister

As the hon. Gentleman knows, that was a declaration of his right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition and of his Government, and they committed themselves to direct elections on entry to the Community. This is a matter which may very well be discussed at a summit, when it is possible to arrange one, with the leaders of European Governments.

Mr. St. John-Stevas

Does my right hon. Friend recall that in his Godkin lectures at Harvard, which preceded the Anglo-Italian declaration by several years, he counselled indirect elections to the European Parliament? Can he say whether there are any plans to put this into operation?

The Prime Minister

What I said in the Godkin lectures was that I did not consider that to have influence, power and responsibility, a Parliament necessarily had to have the means of direct election. I pointed to the American Senate, one of the most powerful parliamentary bodies in the world, which achieved its position on a basis of indirect election, and only comparatively lately went to direct election. As far as Europe is concerned, I said that I believe that it is necessary to have democratic institutions, but if it is not possible to reach agreement on direct election immediately, it can still achieve its purposes by indirect election.

Sir G. de Freitas

In any discussions about direct elections, will the Prime Minister reject any system by which, in the United States, for instance, multimillionaires, such as the Kennedy's and the Rockefeller's, can buy their way into parliament and, indeed, will he insist that we have a system like that of the Germans, of controlled public expenditure for election expenses?

The Prime Minister

This is a fascinating subject. I had better not commit myself to views of that kind. We have our own well-established system here, which controls expenditure but at the same time does not provide for elections at public expense. Therefore, I would not like to commit myself off the cuff to the proposition that all elections for Europe ought to be carried out at public expense.