HC Deb 22 November 1971 vol 826 cc934-7
7. Mr. Alexander W. Lyon

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he will make a statement about his discussion with Mr. Ian Smith concerning the settlement of the Rhodesian dispute.

22. Mr. Strang

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a further statement on the negotiations with the illegal régime in Rhodesia.

44. Mr. Wall

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement on his visit to Rhodesia.

Mr. Godber

As the House is aware, my right hon. Friend is at present conducting negotiations in Rhodesia. He will, no doubt, wish to make a full statement to the House as early as possible after his return.

Mr. Lyon

In the course of his speech on the Southern Rhodesian Sanctions Order, the right hon. Gentleman indicated quite clearly that the Foreign Secretary was not even proposing to negotiate about an external guarantee, and in the nature of things this inevitably means that we must rely solely upon the good faith of Mr. Smith. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that we on this side of the House would regard that as a sell-out by any standards?

Mr. Godber

I do not think I can comment on the discussions going on in Rhodesia at the present time. I do not think it would be useful for me to do so.

Mr. Strang

Is the Minister in a position to deny a report in The Times on Saturday that a draft agreement in principle that is acceptable to the British Government and Rhodesian whites exists but is not acceptable to African opinion? Can he deny or confirm that report?

Mr. Godber

There are so many reports appearing in the Press at the present time that I certainly would not accept that report as correct in any way.

Mr. Wall

Is my right hon. Friend aware that any failure of the present negotiations in Salisbury would inevitably mean that Rhodesia adopts the racial policies of South Africa?

Mr. Godber

There are great dangers in all of this and, as I have said, I prefer not to comment further now.

Mr. Healey

While I understand the unwillingness of the right hon. Gentleman to discuss the negotiations as such, may I ask him whether he is aware that many of us on this side of the House are deeply disturbed that the Foreign Secretary did not agree to see Chief Tangwena yesterday but preferred instead to see three African business men? Can the right hon. Gentleman explain to the House why the Foreign Secretary took the decision not to meet Chief Tangwena, whose fight for the protection of his tribe has aroused the admiration, I think, of all who know about it and who deserved more courtesy than he received?

Mr. Godber

Of course, that also will have been based on Press reports. I have no official information to confirm what the right hon. Gentleman has said. There are so many conflicting Press reports that I really could not accept any of them at the moment without corroboration.

13. Mr. Guy Barnett

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many visits on behalf of Her Majesty's Government Lord Goodman has now undertaken to the illegal régime of Rhodesia; what was the cost of each visit to the Exchequer; and whether further visits of this kind are contemplated.

Mr. Godber

The total payments made in respect of the four visits to Rhodesia by Lord Goodman and the accompanying officials was approximately £9,500. A more detailed analysis of cost would take more time than is justified. Any further visits would obviously depend on my right hon. Friend's report on his present negotiations with Mr. Smith.

Mr. Barnett

While I appreciate the reluctance of the right hon. Gentleman to comment on the present negotiations, will he say to what degree those negotiations were begun on the basis of any knowledge of African opinion gained by Lord Goodman? Secondly, will the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that the Government will observe the fifth principle, that there must be no settlement without the agreement of Rhodesian opinion as a whole, and will he say how the Government propose to see that this agreement is obtained before a settlement is made?

Mr. Godber

In reply to the first point, Lord Goodman's mission was primarily to have discussions with the Rhodesian Government. On the second point, I said in the House on 4th November a good deal about the fifth principle and how it would be implemented. I do not think I can usefully add to that today, because the details are subject to the negotiations which are at present taking place.

Mr. Tapsell

Will my right hon. Friend convey to the Foreign Secretary while he is still in Salisbury the hope of many hon. Members on this side of the House that it will be possible for him while he is in Rhodesia to see the Rev. Sithole? Sithole?

Mr. Godber

I will certainly convey to my right hon. Friend what my hon. Friend said. My right hon. Friend has already received a memorandum from the Rev. Sithole and he has seen many other leaders, including Mr. Nkomo.

16. Mr. Bruce-Gardyne

asked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions he has had with the United States Government regarding the proposed resumption by the United States of chrome ore imports from Rhodesia.

Mr. Godber

None, Sir.

Mr. Bruce-Gardyne

If this House is not to be invited in the fairly near future to follow the sensible example of the United States Congress in this matter, may we take it that, whereas the trade statistics to date show that we have imported Rhodesian chrome via South Africa, we shall in future be assisting the United States balance of payments by importing Rhodesian chrome via the United States?

Mr. Godber

I have no evidence on the point raised by my hon. Friend as to the source of British chrome. I cannot comment about a particular United States decision, certainly not at this moment.

Mr. Orme

Is the Minister aware that many hon. Members find that answer extraordinary? When sanctions were imposed, the Government consulted other leading Governments, including the United States. Many hon. Members feel that the United States has abrogated an agreement with the United Nations and that Her Majesty's Government should protest about this to President Nixon.

Mr. Godber

I am not prepared to go further on this matter at present. This proposal by the Americans has not yet come into force and I do not know the form in which it will be implemented.

Mr. Healey

Is it not the case that the authority signed by the President is permissive, not mandatory? Therefore, some intervention by the British Government at this stage might have an important influence on the decision of the Administration. Have not Her Majesty's Government a clear obligation in this matter as a member of the Commonwealth Sanctions Committee and, indeed, as a member of the United Nations Sanctions Committee, which was equally unanimous as this House when it renewed British sanctions a week or so ago?

Mr. Godber

The position of the renewal of British sanctions is well known, and it is true that Her Majesty's Government are in frequent touch with the American Government on many issues. However, I am not prepared to make any public statement today.