HC Deb 18 November 1971 vol 826 cc810-20

11.54 p.m.

Mr. Norman Fowler (Nottingham, South)

I suppose no section of the population is more subject to criticism than the younger generation and it is my case tonight that we spend too much time saying what the young do wrong, not enough time saying what they do right, and altogether too little time examining how we can help young people to make their contribution, as so many of them wish to do, to the development of this country. A vital part of this examination must be the rôle of the voluntary youth organisations, and how it can best be helped to have maximum impact.

The contribution young people make to this country is already very impressive. Anyone who believes that the younger generation is a worthless lot should examine the range of these activities before agreeing too easily with that kind of generalisation. It is impossible for me to mention all the activities and all the organisations that undertake them. I should like to draw from the experience of just two of the organizations—Community Service Volunteers and the Young Volunteer Force. I hope that one or two of my bon. Friends may be able to catch the eye of the Chair to mention some other important aspects, such as the boys' clubs.

I shall start with one or two local examples in the county of Nottingham and the city of Nottingham. Here young volunteers work in the excellent Cheshire Homes in West Bridgford. They make an outstanding contribution to already outstanding work. Other volunteers work for Nottingham's Family First Trust, which provides accommodation for one-parent families. These volunteers are frequently police cadets. That kind of work is not only valuable and of immense importance for Nottingham but is also of value to the volunteers themselves, who get a much better understanding of the kind of social problems that exist.

An important point is that the volunteers work with the local authorities, not only because there are jobs for them to do but also because the county council and the city council have a positive attitude to them. They recognise the contribution volunteers can make, and in this these two excellent local authorities set an example that other local authorities could follow.

But I do not want simply to set out a catalogue of voluntary projects, impressive as it is, but rather to concentrate on some of the questions that are often raised about the volunteers. Perhaps the most common is the criticism that, however well-meaning young people can he, they do not have the necessary experience of a trained social worker. It is true that they do not have that kind of experience, but such criticism mistakes the intention of the young volunteers. They are not trying to supplant the trained social worker but rather to work with him, under his protection, and to supplement his effort. Thus, when a young volunteer goes to work in an approved school or mental hospital he does not work as an independent agent but as an aid to the staff, who are often hard-pressed.

It should also be remembered that in some areas of work the young volunteer has an exceptional contribution to make because of his very youth. In some areas of work his youth is not a handicap but an advantage. This is never so evident as in the crisis areas of youth today, such as delinquency and drug-taking. The delinquent or young drug-taker can sometimes be better helped and advised by a person of his own age than by an older person. In London, for example, there is an excellent scheme working with young undergraduate pharmacists who are running a drug abuse prevention programme. These young people may well have more success in giving advice to other young people than some of the adult workers have had.

One criticism is that the Young Volunteer Force is predominantly middle class and, therefore, has no application to the ordinary school-leaver. I do not believe this. Some of the most imaginative work which is done is not with future university undergraduates but with delinquents. In Scotland, for example, volunteers are released from the borstals for a certain period of their sentence and allowed to carry out voluntary work under the direction of a voluntary organisation.

Another criticism is that the volunteers concentrate too much on painting houses and digging gardens. This is a more difficult point. Aid of this kind is clearly most valuable in some cases. It may be extremely valuable for old people, although there may be people living next door or in the same street who could give similar help if only they knew that there was a need for it. This is a vital area of community development.

An outstanding contribution is being made by the Young Volunteer Force. As an independent agency, it is able to go into areas and help local people to create the kinds of organisation which are necessary to meet their needs. The need may be to get a neighbourhood legal advice centre going, or to press for action to be taken to deal with a polluted river. Whatever it is, people should be assisted to help themselves. They can help to create organisations of this kind and, because of their independence, they will not be criticised or suspected of having a vested interest.

This kind of effort may not always be popular. It may bring the organisation and the organisation created into conflict with local official bodies. But in the end it leads to a healthier society because people are being helped to realise and express their own rights.

This is a brief sketch of some of the work of the voluntary organisations.

Mr. Charles Morrison (Devizes)

As the Chairman of the Young Volunteer Force, may I say how grateful I am to my hon. Friend for his praise of it? First, he said that it was an independent organisation. On a point of accuracy, it is not true to say that it is an independent or even a voluntary organisation, because it was originated by the Government. Consequently, it is more akin to a neo-governmental agency. Secondly, does my hon. Friend agree that the great advantage of a voluntary organisation or neo-governmental agency at its best is that it has flexibility and consequently is able to go to any area and deal with a problem as it sees it on the ground rather than have preconceived notions about what is wrong and how to deal with the situation? This is the advantage which a voluntary organisation has over a statutory agency, however hard the statutory agency may try.

Mr. Fowler

I am very grateful for that and I am appreciative of the work my hon. Friend does as Chairman of the Young Volunteer Force. I was trying to impress upon hon. Members, not that the organisation was independent of Government, but that when it went into an area it was independent of local interests and had the flexibility which my hon. Friend stresses is of great importance. I agree with him.

Different organisations differ in emphasis, in approach and in aim, but in one thing they are united: that at present voluntary youth organisations are dealing only with the tip of the iceberg, that there are many more jobs which can be done, and that if they were done, it would be no exaggeration to say that it would improve the quality of life in this country. The other point on which they are united is that there is no lack of volunteers. Young people are ready and able to do the jobs, but what is sometimes lacking is the opportunity to serve.

This can be for two main reasons. Voluntary organisations may simply not have the resources to take on new jobs and projects. It may also be because the contribution of young people and its potential is not always recognised by the official bodies who have to give their seal of approval before jobs are undertaken.

My case tonight is that in both respects the Government have a vital role. They can help first by providing more resources than at present—and it is clear that neither this Government nor their predecessors have been outstandingly generous in this. We all know the difficulties; nevertheless, there is an overwhelming case for higher financial priority to be given to this kind of work than at present. It is important that an organisation such as Community Service Volunteers, with the tremendous work it does, should be able to expand to its full extent. It is important that its present grant from Government sources of only £11,000 a year should be increased.

It is also important, if the Young Volunteer Force, of which my hon. Friend is Chairman, is to extend and to continue its good work, it must have more resources and more money should be devoted to it. I add my voice to those already pressing for this to be done. I should not like the Minister to under- estimate the strength of feeling on this point.

But money is not everything. The Government must show by their action that they recognise the contributions young volunteers can make. In particular, Government Departments must show that they welcome the volunteers and must examine the gaps which can be filled by their service. Government must think with imagination in this.

We hear much about the need for a national service. I do not believe that a compulsory national service can be appropriate when dealing with essentially voluntary work, but as a matter of urgency, the Government must ensure that any young person who wants to do voluntary work is not prevented from doing it because of lack of opportunity. This work is in the interests of the young people, but also very much in the interests of the nation.

12.9 a.m.

Mr. Christopher Brocklebank-Fowler (King's Lynn)

The House will be grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham, South (Mr. Fowler) for raising this important matter, not least because some of us are looking to the Government for some action in support of their interest in this field, which was expressed so ably in the election manifesto. I also thank my hon. Friend for allowing me some of his time to take part in the debate.

Youth organisations generally are going through a very difficult time, particularly since the publication of the document "Youth and Community Work in the Seventies". Without touching on the subject of grants and financing, I would draw attention to the concern of bodies such as the executive of the National Association of Boys' Clubs, which, by no mean uniquely, is concerned at the outcome of the discussions between the Standing Conference and the Department.

There have been two meetings, at which a number of important matters have been discussed. I gather that the attitude of the Department's officials was not as encouraging as it might have been at these meetings. Certainly the executive of the N.A.B.C. is under the impression that the Secretary of State has to be persuaded that the national voluntary youth organisations need grants from the Department or that they fulfil any useful purpose in the youth service. Could my hon. Friend reassure us on this point?

Among other points made by the officials at these meetings was the suggestion that a review of the central grants should be carried out by an independent body—a proposal which the Government, apparently, are unwilling to support—and that the voluntary organisations should pay for it. That is surely a monstrous suggestion. The Government should properly have a concern for the development of voluntary organisations.

A second point raised in these discussions was the possibility that there were too many youth organisations and that the number should be reduced by amalgamations. Surely the very strength of these organisations lies in the fact that they are of such variety and thus attract as wide a cross-section of people as possible in the community into voluntary service.

These discussions revealed that some people felt that, in the past, unconstitutional means had been used to influence finance in support of one voluntary body or another, particularly by persuading Members of the Upper House to lobby Ministers on their behalf to ensure larger grants. This House cannot possibly accept this criticism, because it is surely perfectly constitutional for every voluntary body to use whatever means are at its disposal to secure the Government's support in its useful work.

It has also been suggested that grants are very much a matter of grace and favour. This, too, is an assertion which I would contest. This Government, indeed any Government, have a responsibility to support voluntary organisations in every aspect of their work where they are making a useful contribution to the community.

I hope that my hon. Friend will address himself to these points and reassure us that the Government are totally committed to support of voluntary action of as wide a variety as we can possibly afford in the interests of social service.

12.14 a.m.

The Under-Secretary of State for Education and Science (Mr. William van Stranbenzee)

In the short time available to me and against the background of our debate earlier today, I willingly respond certainly to the spirit of the way in which this matter has been introduced by my hon. Friends the Members for Nottingham, South (Mr. Fowler) and King's Lynn (Mr. Brocklebank-Fowler), and I will do my best to answer same of the points made.

I start by reminding my hon. Friends that today we have been debating the whole question of education. Both my right hon. Friend and the Secretary of State for Scotland have been under pressure for increasing expenditure over every range of our education budget, from nursery education to universities. At the same time, we on this side of the House are pledged to continue the process of reducing taxation. Therefore, some degree of a sense of balance in these matters is necessary. But I must make it as clear as I possibly can that the Government most assuredly attach the greatest importance to the voluntary youth movements in this sphere. Perhaps I may be allowed to include in that the Y.V.F.F., though I understand from my hon. Friend that it must now be slightly differently designated.

My own modest background is that for many years I was honorary secretary of a boys' club under the N.A.B.C. I therefore take very much to heart the speech by my hon. Friend the Member for King's Lynn who was relaying certain criticisms. The criticisms spring from one person's interpretation of a meeting. I am not casting aspersions on anybody in this matter. Nobody in the N.A.B.C. could be unaware of or fail to recognise the immense contribution which Lord Althorp has made to its work, and anything which he says we take seriously indeed. But it is unhappy that those particular forms of expression have been made.

I cannot believe that it was right that every detailed application in the voluntary youth movement came up for approval, with others, to the centre. I cannot think that the Government are showing lack of concern about or interest in the voluntary side of this work by having altered the structure by which these approvals were made.

For my own part, having worked in this sphere, I did so willingly and gladly in close co-operation with a local authority. I have recently been to another very remarkable organisation, which I need not name, in Lancashire, where I found the voluntary and the statutory authorities working happily and closely together. I am aware that it varies from place to place, but whatever can be done from the centre certainly is being done to encourage co-operation between the two.

I draw attention, for example, to the phraseology used in Circular 13/71, which has recently been sent out, which embodies the new arrangements for capital grants. It specifically draws to the attention of all concerned that the successful working of new arrangements will depend on close co-operation between local education authorities and voluntary bodies in their areas.

I am aware that there have been problems over the review of headquarters grants. My hon. Friend the Member for King's Lynn, picking up the letter from Lord Althorp which was widely circulated, talked about an independent review of these headquarters grants. I am not sure whether he has had an opportunity of appreciating—if not, I am happy to put the matter before him now—that my right hon. Friend has indeed acceded to that request. This afternoon she expressed some anxiety that it would take so long. She would have liked to go on faster, but this is what they wanted to do. Furthermore, she has arranged that it shall be paid for out of Government funds.

The quid pro quo is that the applications in terms of headquarters grants will remain at their present level, although it is open to any of the bodies concerned to make a special approach if there are special circumstances which warrant it. I am not seeking to suggest that the voluntary bodies are happy with that last proviso, but they have accepted it as part of the arrangement which, on the whole, I think they like. I know that my hon. Friends will remember that it was a recommendation of the Youth Service Development Council that this careful independent inquiry should take place.

I was asked specifically about two very fine organisations in this field, and we all recognise that there are many. The first was Community Service Volunteers. Like my hon. Friend, I was fortunate enough recently to talk over some of its plans with its remarkable director. C.S.V. has recently asked my Department to consider making a special grant to enable it to employ extra staff to handle a 30 per cent. increase in the number of volunteers coming forward, many of whom are young unemployed people. It has been suggested that by placing these young people in community service work they will be able to make a tangible contribution towards alleviating the problem of the young unemployed. I should like to give my hon. Friend the assurance that we are giving very careful thought to these representations. I cannot go further than that tonight. Obviously, so far as the headquarter grant is concerned, it will have the opportunity, given to all other grant-aided national voluntary youth organisations, to apply for an increase in 1972–73, provided, of course, it fulfils the criteria which I have mentioned.

I was also asked specifically about the Young Volunteer Force Foundation, and I am delighted that my hon. Friend the Member for Devizes (Mr. Charles Morrison), its Chairman, is here taking part in the debate. My right hon. Friend has informed my hon. Friend officially, in his capacity as Chairman, that she is willing, in principle, to offer grant aid for a further period at the current level. The inspectorate made a thorough survey of the Y.V.F.F. in the summer and autumn of 1970, and I understand that its report has been in the hands of the trustees for some time.

As a follow-up to that survey, the Y.V.F.F. appointed its own working party under the chairmanship of Professor Walter James to carry out further studies, and the House will notice that from this point of view Professor James was, as it were, an outsider to its organisation. I understand that within the next few days we can expect to receive proposals from the trustees setting out future plans and financial needs in the light of these reports, and my right hon. Friend has agreed to meet a deputation of trustees on 1st December to discuss these

I should like to conclude by telling my hon. Friend the Member for King's Lynn that my right hon. Friend is hoping to see representatives of S.C.N.V.Y.O. at the end of this month so that she may talk over with them any further outstanding points and—

The Question having been proposed after Ten o'clock on Thursday evening, and the debate having continued for half an hour, Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER adjourned the House without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order.

Adjourned at twenty-four minutes past Twelve o'clock.