HC Deb 18 November 1971 vol 826 cc601-6
1. Mr. Hardy

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science what is the number of children of ages seven to 11 years who now do not receive free milk at school; and if she will list those education authorities which contain the highest and smallest proportions of children who are to receive free milk because official medical opinion deems this to be necessary.

The Secretary of State for Education and Science (Mrs. Margaret Thatcher)

Returns so far received from 138 out of 163 authorities in England and Wales suggest that about 1 per cent. of pupils in the relevant age group are getting free milk on grounds of health. On the census date, proportions varied from nil in a number of areas to 8.9 per cent. in the area of the Inner London Education Authority. Authorities in some areas are still examining children referred to them.

Mr. Hardy

Is it not clear that that reply shows how utterly unworkable and discredited is the Government's primary-school milk policy? Is it not also clear that it is proving a very heavy burden upon medical officers engaged in the public service? In view of public reaction and the effect which this measure is having, will not the Secretary of State reconsider the whole wretched business?

Mrs. Thatcher

No; the reply shows that in some areas the provisions are working extremely well. In other areas, authorities are still examining children referred to them. I know that in some areas where the return is given as nil some milk is being supplied on a health basis, but the supplies started after the census date.

Mr. John Fraser

Is not the truth of the matter that the high supply in the Inner London Education Authority area is not due to anything that the Secretary of State has done but is because some courageous authorities have gone ahead and supplied milk themselves?

Mrs. Thatcher

I was reporting what the local education authorities have told me about what they are doing. There was no suggestion that I myself am doing it.

9. Mr. William Hamilton

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many local authorities are continuing to provide free school milk to children from seven to 11 years of age; and what action she intends to take.

Mrs. Thatcher

No local education authorities in England are continuing to provide free school milk contrary to the provisions of the Education (Milk) Act.

Mr. Hamilton

That is a very disappointing reply. In view of the letter which she has sent to my hon. Friend the Member for Renfrew, West (Mr. Buchan) to the effect that medical officers could give certificates for the supply of milk on preventive health grounds, will the right hon. Lady confirm that the door is wide open to all local education authorities to provide milk to every child in every school in the country?

Mrs. Thatcher

I have consistently said that the Government will not give instructions to doctors about how they should discharge their duties under the Act. I believe that that is the right answer, and I do not intend to go against it.

Mr. Charles Morrison

Could my right hon. Friend say how many local education authorities are now using their powers to make milk available for purchase, whether she is satisfied with the number and, if not, whether she will take steps to encourage that practice?

Mrs. Thatcher

Yes, Sir, I could, but that is the subject of another Question, and it would be more courteous to wait for it.

15. Miss Lestor

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many local authorities are enabling milk to be sold in schools.

Mrs. Thatcher

Returns so far received indicate that 30 authorities have made arrangements for selling milk.

Miss Lestor

Is the right hon. Lady aware that on Second Reading of the Education (Milk) Act she said that it was not expected that demand for milk in schools would fall by more than 1 per cent., because of her enabling it to be sold, and that in secondary schools she expected consumption to go up? Does not the very bad figure for the sale of milk that the right hon. Lady has given show that what we forecast has come true and that large numbers of children cannot obtain milk free of charge or by buying it?

Mrs. Thatcher

I hope that more local education authorities will use their powers to sell milk. Thirty of them have shown the way, and I believe that the parents are very satisfied that their children can get milk on purchase. The supply of milk in secondary schools has gone up since the hon. Lady's Government left office, because local education authorities can now supply it for sale.

Mr. Gurden

Does my right hon. Friend know why local authorities will not allow milk to be sold in schools, since most of them did so throughout the period since the milk-in-schools scheme started?

Mrs. Thatcher

No, Sir. I wish that I could answer that question. I see no fundamental difficulty in selling milk in schools. I myself bought it as a primary school pupil many years ago, and it was not too difficult then.

Mr. Swain

Is the right hon. Lady aware that since her vicious Act was nut on the Statute Book children in the Clay-cross urban district have not for one day missed being provided with their free milk? Will she now send out a circular to all rural and urban districts telling them that they can, if they desire, supply free milk to the children within their districts?

Mrs. Thatcher

The hon. Gentleman seems to be referring to the penny rate powers, which are a matter for the Department of the Environment.

23. Mr. David Clark

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science if she is satisfied that all children who are in medical need of milk at junior schools are receiving it and if she will make a statement.

Mrs. Thatcher

Some authorities are still examining children referred to them and the October census figures are likely to understate the number who will qualify for free milk on health grounds.

Mr. Clark

How many other authorities share the same opinion as the West Riding authority and have stated that they cannot give priority to the medical examination of children for the provision of milk?

Mrs. Thatcher

I cannot give the hon. Gentleman an answer. A number of authorities have returned a nil provision, but since they made that return they have been supplying milk to children on health grounds because their arrangements for medical examination have gone on faster.

Mr. Raphael Tuck

Would the right hon. Lady say what her reaction would be if she were a poor woman with two children aged between 7 and 11 years, not in medical need but in great hardship, and the Secretary of State withdrew milk from them?

Mrs. Thatcher

Probably the same as that of the right hon. Member for Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Central (Mr. Edward Short) when milk was withdrawn float secondary schools for children between the ages of 11 and 16.

Mr. Buchan

Why does the right hon. Lady still insist that she will not give guidance to medical officers of health when she has given guidance to me? She has given guidance in the form of a circular. Why does she not now give them the further guidance she gave in her letter to me that they can issue milk for preventive reasons? Medical officers of health believe that the milk should be issued.

Mrs. Thatcher

There is a simple answer to that. I have greater confidence in the medical officers of health.

25. Mr. William Price

asked the Secretary of State for Education and Science how many letters she has received about the withdrawal of free school milk.

Mrs. Thatcher

About 600 have been received in the Department.

Mr. Price

Is the right hon. Lady aware that anyone listening to the earlier exchanges could only come to the conclusion that she is the most mean and vicious member of a thoroughly discredited Government? In view of her determination to stand firm on the question of free school milk, will she give the House an assurance that she has no other eighteenth century measures tucked up her sleeve?

Mrs. Thatcher

I am trying to relieve conditions in eighteenth and nineteenth century primary schools.

Mr. Scott-Hopkins

Does my right hon. Friend accept that some primary school headmasters are refusing to supply milk to the children of parents who wish to buy it? Will she issue a directive to education authorities refusing to supply milk for sale to the effect that in junior and secondary schools they should provide milk for the children of parents who wish to buy it?

Mrs. Thatcher

I cannot issue a directive. This is a matter for local education authorities. We have issued guidance through a circular. I hope that my hon. Friend will take up the matter with the local education authority concerned.