§ 33. Dame Irene Wardasked the Minister for the Civil Service whether the pensions increases to public servants will be applied to the superannuitants of British Railways and to the gas and electricity industries.
§ The Parliamentary Secretary to the Civil Service Department (Mr. David Howell)The Bill now before the House will cover certain groups of nationalised industries' pensioners who retired before nationalisation and were in central or local government service. For all others, the decision lies with the boards of the nationalised industries concerned.
§ Dame Irene WardI thank my hon. Friend for that helpful reply. Am I to understand that those in the nationalised industries, who in the past have benefited when we have given a general public service increase, are to have their share as well? It will be very welcome, because they need it.
§ Mr. HowellThe only group directly affected by the Bill are those who were local or central government employees who retired before the nationalisation of gas or electricity, or the former employees of the Post Office who retired before the Post Office Corporation was set up. For the remainder, it is entirely for the boards concerned to make their pension valuations.
§ Dame Irene WardPoke them up.
§ Mr. Arthur LewisWill former Members of Parliament, now retired, come under the Bill? If my guesswork is right, they will not. If I am right, why will they not? Is it right that a Member who gave 48 years service to the House of Commons should get only a miserly pension and that he and other such pensioners are kept waiting and so shabbily treated by both Conservative and Labour Governments?
§ Mr. HowellThe hon. Gentleman's guesswork is right. Pension arrangements for Members is a matter for the House to decide.
Mr. JitneyIs nothing being done for the old railway employees who went on with British Railways after nationalisation for a few years?
§ Mr. HowellTheir pensions are the responsibility of British Railways and will no doubt be dealt with by the board.
§ Dame Irene WardPoke them up.
§ Mr. Hugh JenkinsIn view of the erosion of pensioners' remunerations because of the Government's failure to control the rise in the cost of living, will the hon. Gentleman look at this matter again and see whether he can broaden the base so that more pensioners will benefit from these arrangements?
§ Mr. HowellNo, Sir, because these arrangements are comprehensive and cover the areas where the Government or the local authorities are the employers or have responsibility. The pension arrangements of former employees of nationalised industries who have retired since nationalisation is by law the responsibility of the boards.
§ Dame Irene WardPoke them up.
§ Mr. CostainOne of the attractions of joining the railways at one time was the prospect of getting a pension at the end of one's career. It was an attractive job under 'those conditions, but does my hon. Friend realise that, with the lapse of time, the pensions are inadequate? Is there anything we can do to help these people, who have lived under this illusion for a number of years?
§ Mr. HowellI sympathise with that point but these are matters for the British 610 Railways Board, whose responsibility it is, to decide.
§ Mr. SpeakerOrder. The Sitting is suspended until 3.15 p.m.
§ 3.7 p.m.
§ Sitting suspended.
§ 3.15 p.m.
§ On resuming—
§ Mr. SpeakerI suspended the House because I was advised that I have no power to allow a Question to the Prime Minister before 3.15 p.m. I think that that is a matter that might be considered by those in authority.
§ Mr. Harold WilsonSo as not to waste time now, may I give notice of a point of order that I wish to raise on this matter?