CHANGE OF CONDITIONS AFFECTING ADEQUACY OF CERTAIN MATTERS SPECIFIED IN FIRE CERTIFICATE, ETC. (Hansard, 10 March 1971)

§ The Under-Secretary of State for Home Affairs and Agriculture, Scottish Office (Mr. Alick Buchanan-Smith)
I beg to move Amendment No. 2, in page 11, line 31, leave out 'or any part of them'.

Mr. Deputy Speaker
With this Amendment it will be convenient to take Amendment No. 3, in line 32, leave out from 'premises' to 'provided' in line 33 and insert 'are'.

§ Mr. Buchanan-Smith
Clause 8(2)(b) provides that if, while a fire certificate is in force, the occupier proposes to make a material alteration in the internal arrangement of premises or in the furniture or equipment, he must give prior notice of the proposal to the fire authority. Amendments were put down in Committee by the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Mr. John) and my hon. Friend the Member for Faversham (Mr. Moate) which were designed to limit the scope of this paragraph. It was accepted that it could be interpreted much more widely than was our intention in originally drafting the Clause, and the hon. Members withdrew their Amendments on an undertaking from me that I would deal with this matter on Report.
As Clause 8(2)(b) is drafted, it might be taken to mean that a rearrangement of furniture in a single room in an hotel required prior notification to the fire authority. This is certainly not our intention, for such a change is not likely to be material to the general means of escape. On the other hand, if we merely distinguished between permanent and temporary alterations, this would be equally unsatisfactory because a temporary change, for example, the erection of partitions and screens in a ballroom to create a particular effect—which we spoke of in Committee—would adversely affect the normal provision of means of escape from that room at a time when it was essential that the means of escape should be wholly adequate. It is essential on such an occasion that the fire authority should be notified in advance.
The object of this Amendment is two-fold. First, by removing the words or any part of them 514 it removes the requirement for a hotel manager who changes the furniture in a bedroom, or who turns a bedroom into a sittingroom, to notify such a matter. Secondly, the removal of the words would underline the fact that "material" as applied to alterations must be understood in terms of the arrangements in regard to means of escape with reference to the normal conditions of the use of premises as seen by the fire authority at the time the fire certificate is issued. Therefore, the hotel manager should be able to distinguish between alterations, permanent or temporary, in a dining room, which would affect the means of exit for guests, and changing furniture in a bedroom, which may be likely to affect the ability of occupants to get in or out. I hope that the House will be satisfied that the points which were made in Committee are satisfactorily covered by this Amendment.

§ Mr. Brynmor John (Pontypridd)
On behalf of my hon. Friends I welcome this Amendment. The hon. Gentleman obviously had a difficult job to frame the precise wording, but the Amendment would appear to meet our points and I thank him.

§ Mr. Roger Moate (Faversham)
I acknowledge the action taken by the Minister in this Amendment to meet points which were originally raised in Committee. However, he then promised to introduce an Amendment couched in somewhat wider terms. Although I acknowledge that his intentions are generous, I am not satisfied that the object has been achieved. The Amendment relates to Clause 8(2)(b), which covers a "material alteration" in furniture or equipment with which premises are provided. I take it that material alteration in internal arrangements applies only to premises and not to furniture and equipment. In this connection the wording would not appear to be entirely satisfactory.
There is a further Amendment to extend the definition of furniture to include a variety of other matters. I welcome that Amendment, but it will mean that an obligation could be placed on hoteliers to notify any change of furniture to include such things as wall coverings, curtains and so on. I am wondering whether it is the intention to impose an onerous burden on hoteliers when they are undertaking ordinary changes in the 515 arrangements of their hotel. Could my hon. Friend clarify this matter?

§ Mr. Buchanan-Smith
I am glad that this Amendment has been welcomed by the Opposition, and has also been given a qualified welcome by my hon. Friend. I understand my hon. Friend's concern, but we believe that the removal of these words makes clear that a change-round in furniture would not be affected. Therefore, we feel that in practice his reservation will not raise any difficulty. We have extended the definition in a later Amendment to cover other items.