§ 7.30 p.m.
§ Mr. James Wellbeloved (Erith and Crayford)I beg to move Amendment No. 26, in page 6, line 29, after 'times', insert:
'and are adequately fire resistant in case of any outbreak of fire in the premises'.
§ Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Robert Grant-Ferris)It will be convenient to take at the same time Amendment No. 27, in clause 11, page 17, line 9, at end insert:
'and to prevent or minimise damage to or destruction of by fire of, such means of escape'.
§ Mr. WellbelovedThe House will be relieved to hear that the passage of this Bill should be fairly short as I do not have the benefit of the assistance of my hon. Friends who so ably assisted me on a previous occasion.
Clause 5 deals with the issue of a fire certificate by the fire authority if it is satisfied on two matters: that means of escape from the premises are provided, and that they are effective when it is necessary to use them.
Many difficulties are involved in fire escapes constructed of steel or cast iron. They can distort when subjected to high temperatures and come away from their fixings. They may be a source of danger when a speedy exit from premises is necessary. Therefore, my Amendment seeks to make the fire authority responsible for satisfying itself that fire escapes are made of non-combustible materials, which are less likely to distort under high temperatures.
Those materials are readily available, easy to use in construction and are used on most occasions already. We seek to ensure that they should always be used, thus minimising the risk. The materials I refer to are concrete, bricks and stone, which do not distort so readily as steel and are non-combustible except after a considerable period of exposure at extremely high temperatures. Because of 511 the importance of ensuring that the means of escape shall be effective when required, the Bill, which encompasses the whole aspect of fire precautions, should provide that the fire authority should be satisfied of this requirement before issuing the certificate.
Amendment No. 27 is designed to ensure that the Minister makes regulations under the Building Regulations and other enactments to give effect to this desirable end.
7.30 p.m.
An article which appeared in the December issue of the Journal of the Fire Protection Association drew attention to the dangers which exist in schools. Schools, local authority buildings and Crown buildings are exempt from the operation of the Building Regulations, although in almost every case they are applied voluntarily. The Fire Protection Association said that now that schools are increasingly being used outside normal school hours, for children's activities, and by parents' associations and evening classes, it is essential that the means of escape in all schools should also be of non-combustible material.
The argument previously used has been that during school hours the children are under supervision and would be so speedily evacuated that the question of the means of escape being affected by fire would not arise before the children had been conducted from the premises. But this does not necessarily apply during the evening. No staff may be on duty, and only a caretaker may be there who would hardly be able, if he has to call the first brigade, to ensure that everybody is safely and quickly escorted off the premises. So there is a need in school premises to ensure that the means of escape are not only suitable for speedy evacuation during school hours but also sufficiently fire resistant to allow less well regulated and less disciplined groups of people to escape.
The Minister has put down an Amendment to deal with wall, floor and ceiling coverings which will have my wholehearted support. If he considers it is important that wall, floor and ceiling coverings should be matters which must be taken into account by a fire authority before the issue of a certificate, this must 512 mean that the Bill as drafted is not absolutely 100 per cent. He has therefore conceded the need to go beyond the draftsman's original intention. If coverings are to be included in the Bill, the means of escape should also be included. I hope the Minister will accept the Amendment.
§ The Minister of State, Home Office (Mr. Richard Sharples)I appreciate the spirit in which the Amendment has been moved, but I do not think it is necessary, and I will try to explain why.
Clause 5(3) places a duty on the fire authority, when it receives an application for a fire certificate, to inspect the premises concerned, and to issue a fire certificate if it is satisfied that certain matters are such as may reasonably be required. Clause 5(3)(b), to which the Amendment relates, sets out one of these matters; namely, the means for securing that the means of escape can be safely and effectively used at all material times. If a staircase, for instance, were not constructed of fireproof materials it would not be able to be used in case of fire. In deciding whether a fire certificate should be issued, the fire authority must take account of the vital factor of the adequacy of the fire resistance of the staircases, corridors and other physical matters which together form the means of escape.
The hon. Gentleman referred to schools. Schools are within the scope of the Bill, but the Bill is concerned with the protection of life rather than property. The Department of Education and Science is about to issue a revised version of Building Bulletin No. 7 on Fire and the Design of Schools. This revision is being discussed with the Joint Fire Prevention Committee of the Central Fire Brigades Advisory Council, and it pays particular attention to the means of escape in the light of modern developments in school buildings.
The hon. Gentleman was right to raise this point but I hope that I have managed to assure him that the point is already covered and that he will feel able to withdraw the Amendment.
§ Mr. WellbelovedI beg to ask leave to withdraw the Amendment, in view of the Minister's statement.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.