Concorde (Hansard, 3 March 1971)

§ 2. Mr. Sheldon
asked the Minister of Aviation Supply if he will now make a further statement on the progress of the Concorde aircraft.

§ 3. Mr. Barnett
asked the Minister of Aviation Supply if he will make a further statement on the Concorde aircraft.

§ 5. Mr. Dykes
asked the Minister of Aviation Supply if he will make a progress report on the development of Concorde and the Olympus 593 engine.

§ Mr. David Price
I have nothing to add to the reply my right hon. Friend gave to the hon. Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Mr. Sheldon) on 10th February.—[Vol. 811, c. 496–8.]

§ Mr. Sheldon
What is the present estimate for the Concorde aircraft? Can the hon. Gentleman comment on the obvious reluctance of B.O.A.C. to operate this aircraft? What pressure does he intend to bring on the corporation?

§ Mr. Price
There is a Question later on the Order Paper concerning the point raised in the first part of the hon. Gentleman's supplementary question, and it would be fairer to the hon. Member who tabled that Question to answer it then. I have seen the article in question in the Observer. It was, as B.O.A.C. stated, an over-simplification of a complex issue. I do not think that this kind of one-sided speculation is helpful to the project.

§ Mr. Barnett
Has the hon. Gentleman seen the speech of the Prime Minister in which he pointed out that it was not Government policy to pour money away without getting an adequate economic return? Surely the Government have made a calculation of the economic return on Concorde based on various levels of sales. Does not the hon. Gentleman owe it to the House to tell us what those calculations are?

§ Mr. Price
The hon. Gentleman will know that these and many other matters will be the subject of review between ourselves and our French partners later this month.

§ Mr. Dykes
As this is an intergovernmental project, will the Government be considering the possibility of making their own approaches to other airlines and B.O.A.C.? That can be important to potential Concorde sales.

§ Mr. Price
It has been the practice under the joint agreement for the sales approaches to be made direct by the firms concerned and not by the Government.

§ Mr. Benn
When is the selling price to be agreed with the French, and when are the further production orders for aircraft seven to ten likely to be announced? Is the hon. Gentleman aware that, to my certain knowledge, at least one customer airline in the United States has declined to discuss its purchase of Concorde until the RB211 question has been settled satisfactorily?

§ Mr. Price
The matters raised by the right hon. Gentleman in the first part of his supplementary question will feature prominently in the discussions with the French to take place later this month. I should be grateful for any detailed information which the right hon. Gentleman likes to let me have on the last part.

§ Sir Harmar Nicholls
As the Minister of Aviation Supply said a few moments ago that the RB211 and Concorde were separate matters and should be kept separate, has my hon. Friend's Department any evidence to show that the flagrant attempts by the right hon. Member for Bristol, South-East (Mr. Benn) to link them for narrow selfish party reasons is likely to injure the Concorde project? Is there anything we can do to stop this obscene interference with important matters?

§ Mr. Price
I am inclined to think that exchanges across the Floor of the House have very little relevance for potential purchasers of this aircraft.

§ Mr. Cronin
Does the hon. Gentleman admit that the very unfortunate remarks of the Minister of Aviation Supply last week about the RB211 affair have had a very prejudicial effect on Concorde and the RB211 negotiations?

§ Mr. Price
I have no evidence to support the hon. Gentleman's charges, and I do not think that he helps the prospects of Concorde by continuing to repeat them.

§ 13. Mr. Deakins
asked the Minister of Aviation Supply what technical and scientific advice he has received about the tail rudder of Concorde; and whether he will make a statement.

§ Mr. David Price
None, Sir. There are no current development problems associated with the Concorde rudder.

§ Mr. Deakins
Can the Minister assure the House that all necessary technical steps have been taken to ensure the safety and reliability of this very important part of the structure of the aircraft?

§ Mr. Price
Yes, I can. Modifications were introduced over two years ago to guard against the possibility of flutter in the rudder, and I can assure the House that there is no flutter problem.

§ 16. Mr. Mather
asked the Minister of Aviation Supply if he will make a statement about the latest Ministerial meeting with the French Government on the Concorde aircraft.

§ Mr. David Price
The meeting with M. Chamant on 18th February was one 1698 of a regular series of meetings to consider the progress of the Concorde project and to prepare for our review of the project as a whole later this month.

§ Mr. Mather
Will my hon. Friend give an assurance that the French aircraft industry has the capacity to deal with Concorde and the A300B without work on the Concorde project being held up?

§ Mr. Price
Broadly, I can give my hon. Friend the assurance he asks for.

§ 17. Mr. Wilkinson
asked the Minister of Aviation Supply whether he will now make a further statement on production funding for Concorde.

§ Mr. David Price
I have nothing to add to the answer that my right hon. Friend gave to my hon. Friend on 20th January.—[Vol. 809, c. 1040–1.]

§ Mr. Wilkinson
I emphasise to my hon. Friend the point made by the hon. Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Mr. Sheldon), that it is imperative to get production going soon. Does he realise that if he were to look at Aviation Weekly of 8th February he would see that the Americans, of all people, are describing Concorde as the strongest challenger in history to American domination of the international transport market?

§ Mr. Price
My hon. Friend will appreciate that the major review at the end of this month will be the proper time to discuss and make decisions about future production.

Mr. Rodgers
Has agreement yet been reached, either with B.A.C. or with the French Government, about the selling price of Concorde? If not, when does the Minister expect such an agreement, and what provision has he in mind in the selling price for research and development costs?

§ Mr. Price
These are matters which I should prefer not to comment on today and which will be very much the subject of my right hon. Friend's discussion with M. Chamant in March.

§ 20 and 31. Mr. Leslie Huckfield
asked the Minister of Aviation Supply (1) when definite performance guarantees on Concorde will be presented to airlines holding options; 1699 (2) whether he will make a further statement on Concorde's options and orders now placed by airlines.

§ Mr. David Price
The manufacturers are evaluating the results of flight and other trials with a view to commencing discussions with airlines in the near future.
With regard to options placed by airlines, I have nothing to add to the answer I gave the hon. Member for Newark (Mr. Bishop) on 10th February.—[Vol. 811, c. 162.]

Mr. Huckfle1d
Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the performance guarantees and the attitudes of the airlines towards them at this stage of Concorde are vital? Will he also bear in mind that in the minds of many American airlines there is a definite link between their attitude to Concorde and their attitude to the RB211?

§ Mr. Price
I cannot honestly agree with the hon. Gentleman on his latter point. We have had an exchange on this already, and he does not help Concorde, which I know he wants to succeed, by repeating these comments.

§ Mr. Adley
Does the Minister recognise, now that we are approaching the marketing period for Concorde, that the Government should accept some responsibility with the manufacturers for the promotion and sale of the aircraft? Will he give serious consideration to a campaign in this country and the United States to influence public opinion favourably towards supersonic transport?

§ Mr. Price
These are all matters to be considered after the decisions of the March review.

§ 24. Mr. Dempsey
asked the Minister of Aviation Supply what estimate he has made of the effect of sonic booms from the Concorde when flying over the Scottish coast on persons and property; and if he will make a statement.

§ Mr. David Price
Ten supersonic test flights have taken place down the West Coast of Scotland so far. Forty-one letters of complaint have been received, and, in addition, there have been 67 claims for damage. Thirty-two of the damage claims have been accepted and £645 has been paid in compensation. Three claims have 1700 been rejected, and the remainder are still being investigated.

§ Mr. Dempsey
Has the Minister studied carefully the effect of the sonic booms on the persons who were interviewed and on the buildings which were instrumentally monitored? Will he confirm that when Concorde becomes operational it will not fly at supersonic speeds along the West Coast of Scotland and Britain and over the mainland?

§ Mr. Price
On the first group of supplementary questions, if the hon. Gentleman remembers that there were more than 400,000 people within the sonic boom carpet of these tests, the number of complaints is not excessive. The second part of his question is a matter for my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry.

§ Mr. Brewis
Is my hon. Friend aware how little inconvenience seems to have been caused in my constituency by the tests, and how pleased people are to be able to contribute to the future of this excellent plane?

§ Mr. Price
I am grateful for those remarks. This is a typical reaction in many parts of the country under the test path. I am sure the House will realise that many people think they are playing their part in a great national endeavour in suffering from these test flights.

§ 28. Mr. Adley
asked the Minister of Aviation Supply what assessment he has made of the effect upon the Concorde programme of the simultaneous development of the TU144; and if he will seek a meeting with his counterpart in the Government of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics to discuss matters of mutual interest.

§ Mr. David Price
On information currently available we do not expect competition from the TU144 to have a significant effect on the potential market for Concorde. In all the circumstances my right hon. Friend sees no need to arrange a meeting with the Soviet Minister of Aviation.

§ Mr. Adley
Would not the hon. Gentleman agree that we have powerful allies in the Russians and in our French friends and that between us we could ensure that no unjustified political pressure is brought 1701 to bear on Concorde? Would he do his best to see that so far as possible the three countries involved in supersonic programmes maintain a united front?

§ Mr. Price
The particular problems my hon. Friend has in mind have not yet arisen with regard to the Soviet supersonic aircraft. I am not yet aware of any intention to fly the aircraft outside the Soviet Union.

Mr. Bean
Would the Minister take the opportunity of denying the story which appeared in the Sunday newspapers that on resource grounds the Government could only fund the RB211 or the Concorde? He made some reference to this matter a moment ago in answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Putney (Mr. Hugh Jenkins), to whose speeches we listen as part of our acceptance of a great national project.

§ Mr. Price
I would prefer not to answer that question off the cuff. If the right hon. Gentleman wishes to put down a Question, I shall give him a full answer.

§ 29. Mr. Michael McNair-Wilson
asked the Minister of Aviation Supply how much financial assistance has been given to date to the British Aircraft Corporation and to Rolls-Royce Limited to cover the development costs of Concorde; and what is now the estimated total cost of the project.

§ Mr. David Price
Expenditue to date at B.A.C. amounts to approximately £150 million, and at Rolls-Royce to about £120 million. The estimate of development cost is one of the questions that my right hon. Friend will be discussing with his French opposite number, M. Chamant, during the coming review of the project.

§ Mr. McNair-Wilson
Could the Minister say at what stage B.A.C. takes over the production financing of Concorde? Will the corporation be buying the Olympus 593 engine directly from Rolls-Royce or from the Government? Could my hon. Friend say whether the Government intend to give any financial assistance for production financing?

§ Mr. Price
The first and third supplementary questions put by my hon. Friend will be very much matters to be discussed in the review. On the second part of the 1702 question, I do not think that it matters now which way it is done since at present the whole project is fully funded by the Government.

§ Mr. Hugh Jenkins
On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In view of the unsatisfactory replies which have been given from the Government Front Bench and the inadequate comment from the Opposition Front Bench on the subject of Concorde, I beg leave to give notice that I shall seek to raise the matter on the Adjournment.