§ 3.10 a.m.
§ The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr. Anthony Stodart)I beg to move, 1626 the same administrative machinery as other co-operatives have had and there is no question of denying to small producers who wish to co-operate exactly the same benefits as are available to bigger producers.
§ Question put:—
§
The House divided: Ayes, 101. Noes,5.
That the Calf Subsidies (United Kingdom) Scheme 1971, a draft of which was laid before this House on 16th February, be approved.
§ The object of the Scheme is to provide for the continuation of calf subsidies after the present Scheme expires at the end of March this year. As the terms of this Scheme are in the main identical with those of the existing one, I do not think that the House will wish me to give more than a fairly brief and succinct description of it.
1627§ Part I provides for the payment of subsidy on live calves born during the three-year period up to and including 29th October, 1973: Part II for payment on carcases certified for fatstock guarantee during the three-year period 1st April, 1971, to 31st March, 1974. These two ways of paying subsidy are generally known as "Stage A" and "Stage B". Three years is the longest time allowed for a scheme under the Agriculture (Calf Subsidies) Act, 1952, but schemes can, of course, be amended within the three years. Stage A continues the provision contained in earlier schemes for paying subsidy on live steers and heifers of suitable beef potential, except heifers of the four main dairy breeds.
§ The House will be interested to know that under Stage A 2½ million calves receive subsidy each year.
§ Stage B continues what is in the existing Scheme with regard to payment on carcases of any home bred cattle which have not received the subsidy as calves, and which are not imported but which are of a standard eligible for fatstock guarantee. This stage enables subsidy to be paid on heifers of the dairy breeds which cannot be eligible while they are still alive, because of the likelihood that they will be subsequently used for milk rather than beef production.
§ Under Stage B 162,000 calves, a very distinct minority, receive subsidy each year. Stage B also gives a further chance of qualifying for subsidy to those calves which fail to meet the required standard at Stage A.
§ Hon. Members will wish to know of two changes from the present Scheme. The first of these is that, following the Transfer of Functions (Wales) Order, 1969, provision has been made for the Secretary of State for Wales to share with the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food the making of the Scheme and its administration in Wales. The other change is limited to Northern Ireland. The Government at Stormont have for some time followed what is in my view a wholly praiseworthy policy of encouraging the dehorning of cattle; and it is an offence in Northern Ireland to sell or export horned cattle, or to expose for sale or present for slaughter cattle which bear signs of recent dehorning. The 1628 reason for the ban on recent dehorning is that, with inspection taking place at not less than six months, it is clearly wise that dehorning should be done well before that time. Therefore, the Government of Northern Ireland strongly discourage dehorning closely before the six-month date.
§ These provisions already preclude the payment of calf subsidy on horned animals at Stage B and, in order to give further support to the dehorning policy, the Scheme provides that calves in Northern Ireland with horns or unhealed wounds apparently resulting from their removal should not receive subsidy at Stage A. They would still have an opportunity to qualify for subsidy at Stage B provided that their horns had been removed by that time. This provision has been accepted by the Ulster Farmers' Union and other livestock interests in Northern Ireland.
§ The total amount spent in the 1969–70 financial year was £271 million, divided between the different countries as follows—England and Wales £18½ million; Scotland £5½ million, and Northern Ireland £3½ million. Over the years the Scheme has run well, and has clearly fulfilled its purpose of encouraging the retention of calves for beef. The numbers of these have been increasing for some time, and it is the Government's intention that this increase should be maintained.
§ I think that this is a thoroughly good Scheme, and I commend it to the House.
§ 3.15 a.m.
§ Mr. Michael Barnes (Brentford and Chiswick)We are grateful to the Minister for that explanation of the Scheme.
It is very late, but there are just a few questions I should like to put to the hon. Gentleman. The Scheme introduces differential arrangements for the payment of subsidy for unhorned animals in Northern Ireland. Does this presage a change of policy towards dehorning in Great Britain? What numbers of calves will be affected by the decision to exclude from subsidy horned cattle in Northern Ireland? Will this affect supplies of animals for fattening in Great Britain?
Naturally, we are also concerned to know how the subsidies may be affected by Government policy, and what will happen to them in the event of Britain's 1629 successfully negotiating entry into the E.E.C. What will the future of the Scheme be if Great Britain—[Interruption.]—if, if—
§ Mr. Stanley Orme (Salford, West)I thank my hon. Friend for that.
§ Mr. Barnes—if we join the E.E.C., or if the Government's plans for levies on agricultural imports are put into effect. Can the hon. Gentleman give an assurance that the Government will continue to make resources available to calf rearers, bearing in mind that they do not necessarily receive full benefit from increases in the end price?
Apart from those few questions, we welcome the Scheme.
§ 3.17 a.m.
§ Mr. James Wellbeloved (Erith and Crayford)I shall be exceedingly brief. The Minister did not make any reference to how the Scheme will operate in any succeeding year in view of the Government's intention to introduce a meat tax. Unless he can satisfy us on that point, I shall advise my hon. Friends to divide on the Motion.
§ 3.18 a.m.
§ The Under-Secretary of State for Home Affairs and Agriculture, Scottish Office (Mr. Alick Buchanan-Smith)The Government have no intention of introducing a meat tax in the terms used by the hon. Member for Erith and Crayford (Mr. Wellbeloved). I hope that that disposes once and for all of that spectre which the hon. Gentleman, I know with the best will in the world, tries to raise on so many occasions at Question Time and at other times.
The hon. Member for Brentford and Chiswick (Mr. Barnes) raised some very valid points. De- horning has the support of the Ulster Farmers' Union, which agrees that it is a sensible measure. The hon. Gentleman asked why we do not apply it to the United Kingdom as a whole, but the circumstances are somewhat different. So many Northern Ireland
| Division No. 223.] | AYES | [3.22 a.m. |
| Alison, Michael (Barkston Ash) | Broklebank-Fowler, Christopher | Cockeram, Eric |
| Allason, James (Hemel Hempstead) | Brown, Sir Edward (Bath) | Cormack, Patrick |
| Atkins, Humphrey | Bruce-Gardyne, J. | Dalkeith, Earl of |
| Baker, Kenneth (St. Marylebone) | Buchanan-Smith, Alick(Angus,N&M) | Dixon, Piers |
| Boardman, Tom (Leicester, S.W.) | Chapman, Sydney | du Cann, Rt. Hn. Edward |
| Boscawen, Robert | Chataway, Rt. Hn. Christopher | Eden, Sir John |
| Bray, Ronald | Chichester-Clark, R. | Eyre, Reginald |
| Brewis, John | Clarke, Kenneth (Rushcliffe) | Fenner, Mrs. Peggy |
§ cattle are transported to Great Britain, and with the sea crossing and so on there is a far greater risk of damage and consequent loss to producers.
§ In Great Britain other measures can be equally effective. For example, the Code of Recommendations for the Welfare of Cattle recognises that horned cattle should not be loose-housed where there is danger of injury or bullying, and that full consideration should be given to the dehorning of calves, called disbudding, at an early stage. In Great Britain our legislation covering slaughterhouses, and the transporting and marketing of livestock, already makes special provision for horned animals.
§ Cattle cannot travel to these shores from Northern Ireland if they are horned. They are not permitted to be carried. Therefore, I do not expect any difference to arise.
§ The hon. Member for Brentford and Chiswick asked what would happen to the Scheme in the event of the United Kingdom joining the Common Market. As I have said many times at Question Time, we must await the outcome of the negotiations in Brussels. I cannot go any further and commit myself on the negotiations. We place considerable importance on a Scheme such as this; we would not have proposed it if we did not. It will help to put money into the hands of those who breed calves, who often sell their stock in a store state or as calves and do not have the benefit of a return direct from the market.
§ A Scheme like this has a place in our agricultural system. I assure the hon. Member for Brentford and Chiswick that we regard the Scheme as important and we shall be taking it into account in our negotiations. I commend the Scheme to the House. I hope that hon. Members opposite will have appreciated my winding up speech on this occasion and that they will not divide the House.
§ Question put:—
§ The House divided: Ayes 99, Noes 0.
| Fidler, Michael | Longden, Gilbert | Roberts, Wyn (Conway) |
| Finsberg, Geoffrey (Hampstead) | MacArthur, Ian | Rossi, Hugh (Hornsey) |
| Fortescue, Tim | Mather, Carol | Scott-Hopkins, James |
| Fowler, Norman | Maxwell-Hyslop, R. J. | Sharples, Richard |
| Gibson-Watt, David | Meyer, Sir Anthony | Shaw, Michael (Sc'b'gh & Whitby) |
| Gilmour, Sir John (Fife, E.) | Mitchell,Lt.-Col.C.(Aberdeenshire,W) | Shelton, William (Clapham) |
| Gower, Raymond | Moate, Roger | Soref, Harold |
| Gray, Hamish | Molyneaux, James | Speed, Keith |
| Green, Alan | Money, Ernle | Spence, John |
| Gummer, Selwyn | Monks, Mrs. Connie | Sproat, Iain |
| Haselhurst, Alan | Monro, Hector | Stanbrook, Ivor |
| Havers, Michael | More, Jasper | Stodart, Anthony (Edinburgh, W.) |
| Hawkins, Paul | Neave, Airey | Stuttaford, Dr. Tom |
| Hornby, Richard | Normanton, Tom | Sutcliffe, John |
| Howe, Hn. Sir Geoffrey (Reigate) | Osborn, John | Taylor,Edward M.(G'gow,Cathcart) |
| Howell, Ralph (Norfolk, N.) | Owen, Idris (Stockport, N.) | Taylor, Frank (Moss Side) |
| Hunt, John | Page, Graham (Crosby) | Tebbit, Norman |
| Hutchison, Michael Clark | Parkinson, Cecil (Enfield, W.) | Thomas, John Stradling (Monmouth) |
| Jenkin, Patrick (Woodford) | Pink, R. Bonner | van Straubenzee, W. R. |
| Jennings, J. C. (Burton) | Pounder, Rafton | Weatherill, Bernard |
| Jopling, Michael | Pym, Rt. Hn. Francis | Whitelaw, Rt. Hn. William |
| King, Tom (Bridgwater) | Redmond, Robert | Worsley, Marcus |
| Kinsey, J. R. | Reed, Laurance (Bolton, E.) | Younger, Hn. George |
| Kitson, Timothy | Rees, Peter (Dover) | |
| Knight, Mrs. Jill | Ridley, Hn. Nicholas | TELLERS FOR THE AYES: |
| Knox, David | Roberts, Michael (Cardiff, N.) | Mr. Walter Clegg and |
| Mr. Victor Goodhew. |
| NOES | ||
| TELLERS FOR THE NOES: | ||
| Mr. James Wellbeloved and | ||
| Mr. Eric Deakins. |
§
Resolved,
That the Calf Subsidies (United Kingdom) Scheme 1971. a draft of which was laid before this House on 16th February, be approved.