HC Deb 28 June 1971 vol 820 cc14-7
11. Mr. Alan Williams

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many children in Swansea and in Wales as a whole have stopped having school meals since the price was raised.

Mr. Gibson-Watt

At the end of May 1,806 fewer school meals were provided in Swansea than in the autumn of 1970. The corresponding figure for Wales was 64,678.

Mr. Alan Williams

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this 12 per cent. fall in the number of school children taking school meals in Swansea is an appalling indictment of Government mean-minded-ness? Since one of the great virtues of the school meal is that it gives a nutritionally balanced diet, will he give an assurance that he will not follow the suggestion of partial meals at midday made by his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education on 23rd April? Will he say whether he wants the children of Wales going through the day on half rations?

Mr. Gibson-Watt

It does not necessarily follow that all the children who have ceased to take school meals have done so because of the price increase. A drop is normally experienced during the summer term. I would remind the hon. Gentleman that the Labour Government twice raised the price of school meals.

Mr. George Thomas

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that he and his right hon. Friends have added to any increase that was there before, and have now made the situation extremely difficult for families in Wales? Therefore, will he look again at the question of putting our children in the front line of sacrifice?

Mr. Gibson-Watt

I am satisfied that under the new remission arrangements no parent who cannot afford to pay the increased charge for school meals will be called upon to do so.

Sir A. Meyer

Will my hon. Friend encourage his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science to persevere in her policy of concentrating Government expenditure where it belongs: namely, on the provision of better schools? But will he also encourage his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Social Services to ensure that under the new arrangements no child is left undernourished or in a situation in which he faces humiliation?

Mr. Gibson-Watt

Yes, I can give my hon. Friend an assurance on the second point. On his first point, I would remind him that the responsibility for increased Government expenditure on primary schools, which was announced by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education and Science, is a shared responsibility with my right hon. and learned Friend the Secretary of State for Wales.

Mr. Barry Jones

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in the county of Flintshire there was a scarifying drop of 20 per cent. in the number of school meals taken after the increase in price? Is he not ashamed of this Scrooge-like, brutal, skinflint and heartless measure?

Mr. Gibson-Watt

We need to be a little careful with the figures. One is comparing the figure after the rise in price with last autumn's figure and not the figure at Easter, which is not available. It is fair comment that the take-up of school meals is normally not so high in the early part of the year as later in the summer.

18. Mr. Fred Evans

asked the Secretary of State for Wales how many schoolchildren in the county of Glamorgan and in Monmouthshire have ceased to take school means since the last increase in the price of such meals; and what percentages these figures represent of children who previously took school meals.

Mr. Gibson-Watt

At the end of May 18,042 and 10,369 fewer school meals were provided in Glamorgan and Monmouthshire respectively than in the autumn of 1970. This represents percentage decreases of 25.1 and 31.7 respectively.

Mr. Evans

Does the hon. Gentleman realise the utterly disgraceful situation which exists in two local authorities which for many years have maintained a phenomenally high standard of service to children in this respect? Is he aware that even inside counties which share in the general high level of unemployment there are pockets of higher unemployment still, in which the decrease in the take-up of school meals is much higher than 25 per cent.? Does he appreciate that at the very time when this burden is being inflicted on the British people the cost of school meals in the United States has been slashed from about 40 cents to between 25 cents and 30 cents? Will he do something to ensure that our Welfare State, which was once the pride of the world, does not take second place to America, at any rate from the school meals point of view?

Mr. Gibson-Watt

The decisions which the Government have taken over school meals and milk are examples of the determination of priorities—[Interruption.]—I trust that hon. Gentlemen opposite will do me the courtesy of listening to my reply—to enable resources to be switched to areas of greater need. These decisions have helped to make possible the enormous improvement and replacement of old primary schools, about which the Labour Government did very little.

Mr. William Edwards

The hon. Gentleman talks of priorities, but is it not a fact that the total cost of paying for school milk is about equal to the total relief which is to be given to surtax payers on 1st January?

Mr. Gibson-Watt

I understood that this question was about meals and school milk and education services. [HON. MEMBERS: "Priorities."] I repeat that as a result of changes in charges for milk and meals, it has been possible for my right hon. and learned Friend and his right hon. Friend to announce that it will be possible to spend £13 million on primary schools in Wales in the next three financial years.