HC Deb 24 June 1971 vol 819 cc1576-8
20. Mr. Wiggin

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how much money is owing in unpaid overdue fines to magistrates' courts in England and Wales at the latest convenient date.

Mr. Carlisle

I regret that this information is not available.

The total amount of fines outstanding on 31st March, 1971, in England and Wales, outside Inner London, was £6,381,604. But this included fines for which the time for payment had not expired.

Mr. Wiggin

My hon. and learned Friend will note that my Question asks about overdue fines. Will he say why such a large sum is involved and, indeed, why any fines are unpaid?

Mr. Carlisle

As I said at the beginning, and I apologise to my hon. Friend for this, it is impossible to find the answer to his Question because the figures that we keep do not distinguish between fines that are overdue and those for which time for payment has been given. My hon. Friend asked why anything is ever overdue. The answer is that people do not carry out the commitments which they are required to by the courts.

22. Mr. Loughlin

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will take steps to make available to magistrates a summary of Section 31 of the Magistrates' Courts Act, 1952, dealing with the relationship of fines to the means of the person on whom the fine is imposed.

Mr. Carlisle

My right hon. Friend has no reason to think that courts need to be reminded of these provisions, to which they have ready access.

Mr. Loughlin

The hon. and learned Gentleman says that the courts have no need to be reminded of this. May I point out to him that a recent Home Department circular has been sent to courts in respect of the absence of any uniformity of fines in motoring offences? If a circular of that kind can be sent to the courts, why is it not necessary to send circulars to magistrates to draw their attention to the Section of the Act to which I have referred?

Mr. Carlisle

The uniformity of fines is a different matter. The Home Office has no reason to believe that the requirement of the court, when fixing a fine, to take into consideration, among other things, the means of the person being fined is being disregarded.

Mrs. Kellett-Bowman

Will my hon. and learned Friend bear in mind that many courts are still imposing fines that are ludicrous in relation to the person's means? When fines of £60 to £70 are imposed on an unemployed labourer with many children or on a person who has been deprived of his livelihood because he has lost his licence, one wonders how the fines will be paid.

Mr. Carlisle

It would be improper for me or for any Minister at the Home Office to comment on fines imposed by courts in individual cases. That must be a matter for the discretion of the court.

Mr. Loughlin

In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.