HC Deb 17 June 1971 vol 819 cc657-63

Amendments made: No. 47, in page 15, line 30, leave out from 'him' to 'or' in line 38 and insert: ' by virtue of section 3(5) above '.

No. 48, in page 15, line 42, leave out from beginning to 'above' and insert: ' by virtue of section 3(5) '.

No. 49, in page 16, line 3, at end insert: (2A) An appeal under this section against a decision to make a deportation order against a person shall be to the Appeal Tribunal in the first instance, instead of to an adjudicator, if the ground of the decision was that his deportation is conducive to the public good; and a person shall not be entitled to appeal against a decision to make a deportation order against him if the ground of the decision was that his deportation is conducive to the public good as being in the interests of national security or of the relations between the United Kingdom and any other country or for other reasons of a political nature.

No. 50, in page 16, line 4, leave out 'under subsection (1)(b) above' and insert: ' against a decision to make a deportation order against him as belonging to the family of another person '.- —[Mr. Maudling.]

Mr. S. C. Silkin (Dulwich)

I beg to move Amendment No. 97, in page 16, line 5, after 'that', insert: ' (a) he is capable of providing for his own support without assistance from the other person who is ordered to be deported; or (b) he was not when either of the relevant deportation orders were made and had not between the making of the said orders been living as part of the family of the other person ordered to be deported; and in either of the cases referred to under (a) and (b) above that it would not be in his interest to be deported or on the ground that '.

Mr. Speaker

It is suggested that it will be convenient to take also Amendment No. 53, in page 16, line 8, after 'deported', insert: ' or on the ground that— (a) he is capable of providing for his own support without assistance from the other person who is ordered to be deported; or '

Mr. Silkin

The purpose of the Amendment is to provide a right of appeal in cases of what has been called family deportation. When we were dealing with that subject in another context last night the Home Secretary, perhaps anticipating the debate on this Amendment, said: I have decided that what I would like to do is to introduce at a later stage … the right of appeal. I will have to draft the wording. It will be a right of appeal in cases of family deportation, direct to the appeal tribunal. I am sorry that I cannot put an Amendment down today, but it will take some drafting. I am not sure whether the emphasis was on the word "some", or otherwise. The right hon. Gentleman then said: I am willing to give that undertaking, to introduce a right of appeal in these cases at a later stage."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 16th June, 1971; Vol. 819, c. 507.] We expressed our pleasure that the right hon. Gentleman had succumbed to our pressure on this matter.

The intention of Amendment No. 97 is to do what the right hon. Gentleman says that he intends to do, and he reserves to himself, as is no doubt proper, the right to carry out the drafting. In these circumstances, it is unnecessary for me to expatiate on the principle of the matter. However, I should appreciate it if the right hon. Gentleman, who has no doubt had an opportunity of considering the Amendment, will tell us about the kind of difficulties which he appears to envisage, how he proposes that this right of appeal should operate in the case of the family of a person who is deported, and how it fits in generally with his scheme for supervised departure and the timetable which he has proposed in accordance with earlier Amendments. It would be of assistance if he explained that, particularly as the Amendment which he has undertaken to introduce will be discussed first in another place and will only return to this House at a very late stage.

4.15 p.m.

The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Reginald Maudling)

As the hon. and learned Member for Dulwich (Mr. S. C. Silkin) has said, to some extent the Amendment has been overtaken by what I said about a right of appeal. The Amendment would give a right of appeal on certain grounds. I envisage a wider right of appeal. I certainly give an undertaking that the grounds of appeal in the Amendment will be encompassed within the Amendment which I shall put down at a later stage. Were I to accept the Amendment, it

might exclude other wider grounds which I should like to include. I hope that the hon. and learned Gentleman will accept my asurance that the purpose of his Amendment will be fully covered by the Amendments I intend putting down at a later stage.

Amendment negatived.

Amendments made: No. 51, in page 16, line 7, after 'or', insert 'is or was'.

No. 52, in page 16, line 7, leave out from 'person' to first 'the' in line 9 and insert: ' and on an appeal against such a decision '.—[Mr. Maudling.]

Amendment proposed: No. 114, in page 16, line 14, leave out 'not'.—[Mr David Steel.]

Question put, That the Amendment be made:—

The House divided: Ayes 205, Noes 226.

Division No. 381.] AYES [4.16 p.m.
Abse, Leo de Freitas, Rt. Hn. Sir Geoffrey Hughes, Mark (Durham)
Albu, Austen Delargy, H. J. Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen, N.)
Allaun, Frank (Salford, E.) Dell, Rt. Hn. Edmund Hughes, Roy (Newport)
Allen, Scholefield Dempsey, James Janner, Greville
Archer, Peter (Rowley Regis) Doig, Peter Jenkins, Hugh (Putney)
Armstrong, Ernest Dormand, J. D. Johnson, Carol (Lewisham, S.)
Ashley, Jack Douglas, Dick (Stirlingshire, E.) Johnson, James (K'ston-on-Hull, W.)
Ashton, Joe Douglas-Marnn, Bruce Johnson, Walter (Derby, 8.)
Atkinson, Norman Driberg, Tom Jones, Dan (Burnley)
Bagier, Gordon A. T. Duffy, A. E. P. Jones, Rt. Hn. Sir Elwyn (W. Ham. S.)
Barnes, Michael Dunn, James A. Jones, Gwynoro (Carmarthen)
Barnett, Joel Dunnett, Jack Jones, T. Alec (Rhondda, W.)
Beaney, Alan Edeiman, Maurice Kaufman, Gerald
Benn, Rt. Hn. Anthony Wedgwood Edwards, Robert (Bilston) Lambie, David
Bennett, James (Glasgow, Bridgeton) Edwards, William (Merioneth) Lamond, James
Bidwell, Sydney English, Michael Latham, Arthur
Bishop, E. S. Evans, Fred Lawson, George
Blenkinsop, Arthur Fisher, Mrs. Doris (B'ham, Lady wood) Leonard, Dick
Boardman, H. (Leigh) Fitch, Alan (Wigan) Lestor, Miss Joan
Booth, Albert Fletcher, Ted (Darlington) Lewis, Arthur (W. Ham, N.)
Bottomley, Rt. Hn. Arthur Foley, Maurice Lewis, Ron (Carlisle)
Brown, Bob (N'c'tle-upon-Tyne, W.) Foot, Michael Lipton, Marcus
Buchan, Norman Ford, Ben Loughlin, Charles
Buchanan, Richard (G'gow, Sp'burn) Forrester, John McBride, Neil
Butler, Mrs. Joyce (Wood Green) Freeson, Reginald McCartney, Hugh
Callaghan, Rt. Hn. James Gilbert, Dr. John McElhone, Frank
Campbell, I. (Dunbartonshire, W.) Ginsburg, David McGuire, Michael
Cant, R. B. Gourlay, Harry Mackenzie, Gregor
Carmichael, Neil Grant, George (Morpeth) Mackie, John
Carter, Ray (Birmingham, Northfield) Grant, John D. (Islington, E.) McMillan, Tom (Glasgow, C.)
Carter-Jones, Lewis (Eccles) Griffiths, Eddie (Brightside) McNamara, J. Kevin
Clark, David (Colne Valley) Griffiths, Will (Exchange) Marion, Simon (Bootle)
Cocks, Michael (Bristol, S.) Grimond, Rt. Hn. J. Mallalieu, E. L. (Brigg)
Cohen, Stanley Hamilton, James (Bothwell) Mallalieu, J. P. W. (Huddersfield, E.)
Concannon, J. D. Hamilton, William (Fife, W.) Marsden, F.
Conlan, Bernard Hannan, William (G'gow, Maryhill) Mason, Rt. Hn. Roy
Corbet, Mrs. Freda Hardy, Peter Mayhew, Christopher
Cox, Thomas (Wandsworth, C.) Harper, Joseph Mellish, Rt. Hn. Robert
Crawshaw, Richard Harrison, Walter (Wakefield) Merdelson, John
Crosland, Rt. Hn. Anthony Hart, Rt. Hn. Judith Millan, Bruce
Dalyell, Tarn Healey, Rt. Hn. Denis Milne, Edward (Blyth)
Davies, Denzil (Lianetly) Heffer, Eric S. Morgan, Elystan (Cardiganshire)
Davies, G. Elfed (Rhondda, E.) Horam, John Morris, Alfred (Wythenshawe)
Davies, Ifor (Gower) Houghton, Rt. Hn. Douglas Morris, Charles R. (Openshaw)
Davis, Clinton (Hackney, C.) Huckfield, Leslie Morris, Rt. Hn. John (Aberavon)
Deakins, Eric Hughes, Rt. Hn. Cledwyn (Anglesey) Mcyle, Roland
Mulley, Rt. Hn. Frederick Roberts, R t. H n. Goronwy (Caernarvon) Thorpe, Rt. Hn. Jeremy
Murray, Ronald King Robertson, John (Paisley) Tomney, Frank
Ogden, Eric Roderick. CaerwynE. (Br'c'n&R'dnor) Torney, Tom
O'Malley, Brian Rodgers, William (Stockton-on-Tees) Urwin, T. W.
Oram, Bert Roper, John Varley, Eric G.
Orme, Stanley Ross, Rt. Hn. William (Kilmarnock) Wainwright, Edwin
Oswald, Thomas Shore, Rt. Hfl. Peter (Stepney) Walker, Harold (Doncaster)
Paget, R. T. Short, Mrs. Renee (W'hampton. N. E.) Wallace, George
Palmer, Arthur Silkin, Hn. S. C. (Dulwich) Watklns, David
Pannell, Rt. Hn. Charles Sillars, James Weltzman, David
Pavitt, Laurie Silverman, Julius Wellbeloved, James
Peart, Rt. Hn. Fred Skinner, Dennis Wells, William (Walsall, N.)
Pendry, Tom Small, William White, James (Glasgow, Pollok)
Pentland, Norman Smith, John (Lanarkshire, N.) Whitehead, Phillip
Perry, Ernest G. Spearing, Nigel Whitlock, William
Prentice, Rt. Hn. Reg. Spriggs, Leslie Williams, Alan (Swansea, W.)
Prescott, John Stoddart, David (Swindon) Williams, Mrs. Shirley (Hitchln)
Price, William (Rugby) Stonehouse, Rt. Hn. John Wilson, Rt. Hn. Harold (Huyton)
Probert, Arthur Strang, Gavin Woof, Robert
Rankin, John Strauss, Rt. Hn. G. R.
Reed, O. (Sedgefield) Summerskill, Hn. Dr. Shirley TELLERS FOR THE AYES
Rees, Merlyn (Leeds, S.) Swain, Thomas Mr. David Steel and
Rhodes, Geoffrey Thomas, Rt. Hn. George (Cardiff, W.) Mr. John Golding.
Roberts, Albert (Normanton) Thomas, Jeffrey (Abertillery)
Adley, Robert Fowler, Norman McMaster, Stanley
Allason, James (Hemel Hempstead) Fox, Marcus McNair-Wilson, Michael
Archer, Jeffrey (Louth) Fraser, Rt. Hn. Hugh (St'fford & Stone) Maddan, Martin
Astor, John Calbraith, Hn. T. G. Madel, David
Awdry, Daniel Gilmour, Ian (Norfolk, C.) Maginnis, John E.
Batsford, Brian Gilmour, Sir John (Fife, E.) Marples, Rt. Hn. Ernest
Beamish, Col. Sir Tufton Glyn, Dr. Alan Marten, Neil
Bell, Ronald Goodnew, Victor Maude, Angus
Bennett, Sir Frederic (Torquay) Gorst, John Maudlins, Rt. Hn. Reginald
Bennett, Dr. Reginald (Gosport) Cower, Raymond Mawby, Ray
Biffen, John Gray, Hamish Maxwell-Hyslop, R. J.
Biggs-Davison, John Green, Alan Meyer, Sir Anthony
Blaker, Peter Grylls, Michael Mills, Peter (Torrington)
Boardman, Tom (Leicester, S. W.) Gummer, Selwyn Mills, Stratton (Belfast, N.)
Boscawen, Robert Hall, Miss Joan (Keighley) Mitchell, David (Basingstoke)
Bossom, Sir Clive Hall-Davis, A. G. F. Moate, Roger
Bowden, Andrew Hamilton, Michael (Salisbury) Molyneaux, James
Boyd-Carpenter, Rt. Hn. John Hannam, John (Exeter) Money, Ernle
Bray, Ronald Harrison, Brian (Maldon) Monks, Mrs. Connie
Brinton, Sir Tatton Harrison, Col. Sir Harwood (Eye) Monro, Hector
Brocklebank-Fowler, Christopher Haselhurst, Alan Montgomery, Fergus
Brown, Sir Edward (Bath) Hay, John More, Jasper
Bruce-Gardyne, J. Heseltine, Michael Morgan, Geraint (Denbigh)
Bryan, Paul Hicks, Robert Morgan-Giles, Rear Adm.
Buchanan-Smith, Alick (Angus, N&M) Hiley, Joseph Morrison, Charles (Devizes)
Bullus, Sir Eric Hill, James (Southampton, Test) Mudd, David
Campbell, Rt. Hn. G. (Moray&Nairn) Holland, Philip Murton, Oscar
Carlisle, Mark Holt, Miss Mary Neave, Airey
Channon, Paul Hornsby-Smith, Rt. Hn. Dame Patricia Noble, Rt. Hn. Michael
Chapman, Sydney Howell, David (Guildford) Normanton, Tom
Chataway, Rt. Hn. Christopher Howell, Ralph (Norfolk, N.) Nott, John
Chichester-Clark, R Hutchison, Michael Clark Onslow, Cranley
Clarke, Kenneth (Rushcliffe) Iremonger, T. L. Oppenheim, Mrs. Sally
Cooke, Robert James, David Orr, Capt. L. P. S
Coombs, Derek Jenkin, Patrick (Woodford) Osborn, John
Cooper, A. E. Jennings, J. C. (Burton) Page, John (Harrow, W.)
Cormack, Patrick Jessel, Toby Percival, Ian
Costain, A. P. Johnson Smith, G. (E. Grinstead) Pike, Miss Mervyn
Critchley, Julian Jopling, Michael Pink, R. Bonner
Crouch, David Kaberry, Sir Donald Pounder, Rafton
Davies, Rt. Hn. John (Knutsford) Kimball, Marcus Powell, Rt. Hn. J. Enoch
d'Avigdor-Goldsmid, Sir Henry King, Evelyn (Dorset, S.) Price, David (Eastleigh)
d'Avigdor-Goldsmid, Maj.-Gen. James King, Tom (Bridgwater) Prior, Rt. Hn. J. M. L.
Dixon, Piers Kinsey, J. R. Proudfoot, Wilfred
Drayson, G. B. Knox, David Pym, Rt. Hn. Francis
Eden, Sir John Lane, David Quennell, Miss J. M.
Edwards, Nicholas (Pembroke) Langford-Holt, Sir John Raison, Timothy
Elliott, R. W. (N'c'tle-upon-Tyne, N.) Legge-Bourke, Sir Harry Redmond, Robert
Eyre, Reginald Le Marchant, Spencer Reed, Laurance (Bolton, E.)
Farr, John Lloyd, Rt. Hn. Geoffrey (Sut'nC'dfield) Rees, Peter (Dover)
Fell, Anthony Longden, Gilbert Ronton, Rt. Hn. Sir David
Fenner, Mrs. Peggy Loveridge, John Rhys Williams, Sir Brandon
Fidler, Michael Luce, R. N. Ridley, Hn. Nicholas
Finsberg, Geoffrey (Hampstead) Mac Arthur, Ian Ridsdale, Julian
Fisher, Nigel (Surbiton) McCrindle, R. A. Rippon, Rt. Hn. Geoffrey
Fookes, Miss Janet McLaren, Martin Roberts, Michael (Cardiff, N.)
Fortescue, Tim Maclean, Sir Fitzroy Roberts, Wyn (Conway)
Rossi, Hugh (Hornsey)
Rost, Peter Stuttaford, Dr. Tom Walker, Rt. Hn. Peter (Worcester)
Russell, Sir Ronald Sutcliffe, John Walker-Smith, Rt. Hn. Sir Derek
Scott, Nicholas Tapsell, Peter Ward, Dame Irene
Sharpies, Richard Taylor, Sir Charles (Eastbourne) Warren, Kenneth
Shaw, Michael (Sc'b'gh & Whitby) Taylor, Edward M.(G'gow, Cathcart) Weatherill, Bernard
Shelton, William (Clapham) Taylor, Frank (Moss Side) Wells, John (Maidstone)
Simeons, Charles Taylor, Robert (Croydon, N. W.) White, Roger (Gravesend)
Sinclair, Sir George Tebbit, Norman Wiggln, Jerry
Skeet, T. H. H. Temple, John M. Wolrige-Gordon, Patrick
Smith, Dudley (W'wick & L'mlngton) Thatcher, Rt. Hn. Mrs. Margaret Wood, Rt. Hn. Richard
Soref, Harold Thomas, John Stradling (Monmouth) Woodhouse, Hn. Christopher
Speed, Keith Thomas, Rt Hn. Peter (Hendon, S.) Woodnutt, Mark
Spence, John Trafford, Dr. Anthony Worsley, Marcus
Sproat, Iain Trew, Peter Wylie, Rt. Hn. N. R.
Stainton, Keith Tugendhat, Christopher Younger, Hn. George
Stanbrook, Ivor Turton, Rt. Hn. Sir Robin
Stewart-Smith, D. G. (Belper) van Straubenzee, W. R. TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Stodart, Anthony (Edinburgh, W.) Vaughan, Dr. Gerard Mr. Paul Hawkins and
Stoddart-Scott, Col. Sir M. Waddington, David Mr. Walter Clegg.
Stokes, John
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