HC Deb 16 June 1971 vol 819 cc437-8
27. Mr. Fox

asked the Secretary of State for the Environment if he will circulate details of a general formula relating to concessionary fares.

Mr. Eldon Griffiths

No, Sir. Proposals for a formula were circulated last year but attracted little support.

Mr. Fox

Is my hon. Friend aware that hon. Members who have more than one local authority in their constituencies are placed in great difficulty when one authority is giving these concessions and the others are not, and that it is extremely difficult to explain to elderly citizens how this system can be fair?

Mr. Griffiths

I agree that there are many things about local government which are difficult to explain to constituents. As long as we have such a large number of local authorities this problem is likely to be with us.

Mr. Mulley

Is the Minister aware not only that this system affects one local authority as opposed to another, but that the matter is of great concern to the traffic commissioners when requests for fares increases are before them? Is he aware that if many local authorities could make arrangements where only marginal extra costs are involved for old people and in those cases the marginal difference could be borne by the ratepayers, it would provide a more satisfactory system and result in more concessionary schemes coming into operation compared with the present arrangement, which attempts to secure an average charge? Will his Department give real guidance to local authorities on this matter?

Mr. Griffiths

The right hon. Gentleman is right but, as I say, we consulted local authorities and the bus associations a year or so ago and there was very little support indeed for this proposal. I can only tell the right hon. Gentleman that if there is evidence of general need, and I accept that there might be, we shall be very willing to reopen discussions with the associations concerned.