§ 4. Mr. John Smithasked the Secretary of State for Scotland if he will cause the Scottish Development Department to initiate a study of the measures necessary to stimulate employment in Scotland.
§ Mr. Gordon CampbellMy Department already makes, in conjunction with other Departments, a full and continuing assessment of the economic situation in Scotland and of the measures necessary to stimulate employment which may be practicable from time to time.
§ Mr. SmithThe Department's efforts have been singularly unsuccessful so far. Will not the right hon. Gentleman try to plan for the future to give some injection into the economy before we are hit with serious unemployment, instead of afterwards? Also, will he have talks with the Leader of the House to make sure that we have many more debates about the Scottish economic situation, because on each occasion we have an announcement about a little more money to hide the Government's shame?
§ Mr. CampbellI do not acquiesce in the sentiment expressed in the hon. Gentleman's last few words, but I am keen to debate Scottish affairs as often as we can both in the Chamber and in the Scottish Grand Committee. As I 465 recorded at some length in the debate yesterday, the Government have taken vigorous action in their first year, in regional development and in other ways, to deal with the upward trend of unemployment starting from October, 1969.
§ Mr. MackintoshIs it not clear that Scotland has come off much worse in the current recession than any other region of the United Kingdom and that all the efforts made over the past 10 years have run into serious difficulties? Could we not have a special study into why the Scottish situation has been so much worse than that of the other sections of the United Kingdom so that we might learn how to prevent this occurring again?
§ Mr. CampbellI agree that this is a serious matter. Studies have been made of particular aspects of it. What has happened during the past year must be the result of the methods which were being employed over the previous five years, during which time we, the then Opposition, pointed to the serious losses of jobs, running to tens of thousands, taking place at that time. But I agree that this is a serious matter which needs further consideration.
§ Mr. MaclennanWhy have not the Government published the study which was undertaken or initiated by the previous Government of the effectiveness of investment grants? Why did the Government depart from the investment grants prior to publication of that study, and will the Secretary of State now make known what the findings were?
§ Mr. CampbellThe hon. Gentleman will see in HANSARD what I said about this yesterday. We were informed by the last Government that a study was to be made within the Government on investment grants as a result of the recommendation by the Estimates Committee and the dissatisfaction then expressed on both sides of the House at Question Time—I remember it well—about the effectiveness of investment grants. As far as I know, that study was not completed or its progress announced by the last Government before they went out of office We had made our own studies, under the chairmanship of the late Iain Macleod, into all these matters. After coming into office, we naturally took account of all the advice available both outside and 466 within the Department before going ahead with our own proposals, which were announced last October.
§ 12. Mr. James Hamiltonasked the Secretary of State for Scotland what was his reply to the Scottish Development Council's request for a meeting concerning unemployment in Scotland ; and if he will make a statement.
§ Mr. Gordon CampbellTogether with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry and my hon. Friend the Minister of State for the Department of Employment, I had a most useful meeting last week with representatives of the Scottish Council (Development and Industry). We had a valuable exchange of views on Scotland's economic problems and I look forward to maintaining close contact with the Council on these important matters as I always have done.
§ Mr. HamiltonWill the right hon. Gentleman assure us that he is taking cognisance of what was said by Lord Clydesmuir about reflating the economy? Will he also tell us again about the £33 million he intends to spend, because that is only scratching the surface? Will he try to get concerted effort from industry to form a policy not only to bring jobs to Scotland but to make them grow there so that he can in the long term solve this pernicious problem?
§ Mr. CampbellIt is for the Scottish Council itself to state what it said to me and my colleagues at that meeting but I assure the hon. Gentleman that we are determined to get the growth to which he refers.
§ Mr. DouglasDoes not the right hon. Gentleman accept that there is a severe dichotomy in the rôle of the Scottish Council at present because it can hardly sell Scotland effectively abroad—which is the rôle he has prescribed for it—while at the same time having these considerable misgivings about the future of the Scottish economy?
§ Mr. CampbellThe Council has ex-expressed publicly apprehension about the present state of unemployment in Scotland—as, indeed, we all have. It has also for some years taken a leading part in the promotion of Scottish industry and of Scotland as a site for industrial development. What we have done is to 467 try, through its agency, to co-ordinate the efforts which were previously separately being made by different parts of Scotland and by different bodies to promote Scotland abroad.
§ Mr. MaclennanWhen the right hon. Gentleman intervened to stop the Highlands and Islands Development Board from promoting the Highlands abroad and spending £100,000 for the purpose, he announced that the Scottish Council was to be given £20,000. Can he now say what success the Council has had and what steps it has taken to promote development in the Highlands in view of the growing and record levels of unemployment there? Why did he make no mention of the Highlands and Islands during yesterday's debate on the Scottish economy? Does he not regard that as part of the Scottish economy?
§ Mr. CampbellI remind the hon. Gentleman that I live in that area, 10 miles from Inverness. The boundary of the Highland counties runs down the side of my garden. I would like to have spoken about the Highlands and Islands yesterday—indeed, I could have done so for half an hour. But the problems raised in the debate by the right hon. Member for Kilmarnock (Mr. Ross) were serious ones affecting other parts of Scotland, and, naturally, I concentrated on them. I spoke in general terms without mentioning other important areas, such as the Borders, the South-East and the North-East. I do not understand what the hon. Gentleman says about my intervening to stop the Highlands and Islands Development Board from carrying out some promotion abroad, because the Board is free to do this itself.
32. Mr. Ruchanasked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many requests he has received from church, local authority, trade union or management organisations asking him to meet delegations to discuss the question of unemployment during the last six months ; and which of these he has met.
§ Mr. Gordon CampbellI have received requests from such organisations for a total of 21 meetings. I and my hon. Friend have met or are shortly to meet 10 groups. Three other meetings have been taken by officials in my place, and the most recent requests are still under consideration.
§ Mr. BuchanIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is a general feeling in Scotland that the anxiety felt by those who have not met him is equalled only by the anxiety felt by those who have met him? Does he agree that if he met more people he would be more aware of the deep-seated anger in every sector in Scotland about the present position and would do something about it?
§ Mr. CampbellI think the hon. Gentleman knows that I have met a number of deputations at very short notice in addition to the ones I have described in the reply, including a deputation which came with the hon. Gentleman. I have listened to views of different kinds put even from within the deputations. I am very much aware of the feelings of members of deputations who come to see me, and I think that they are aware of my very deep concern about the unemployment situation in Scotland.