§ 8. Mr. Healeyasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he will give an undertaking that Her Majesty's Government will make no decision regarding the supplying of further armaments to the South African Government while the House of Commons is in Recess.
§ 18. Mr. Wallasked the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what orders for maritime arms have now been made by the South African Government; and what reply has been sent.
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeNo new orders have been received for maritime arms. As I have said, the House will be informed of any decision to enter into any new arms deal with South Africa covering categories outside those comprised in my statement of 22nd February.—[Vol. 812. c. 34–42.]
§ Mr. HealeyI welcome that reply. Will the Foreign Secretary be a little clearer and be prepared to say, as he did in answer to my earlier question about Rhodesia, that, whatever decision the Government may take, the House will be the first body to be informed of such a decision and that therefore no decision Will be published during the recess? Secondly, will he tell us whether the 21 Government's attitude on the supply of further arms to South Africa will depend on South Africa's pressure on the Rhodesian Government for a settlement satisfactory to the British Government of the Rhodesian problem?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeOn the first part of the right hon. Gentleman's question, I propose that the first statement about additional arms to South Africa should be made to the House.
On the second part of his question, whether we shall sell more arms to South Africa depends not at all on a Rhodesian settlement but on our assessment of British interests.
§ Mr. WallIs it not a fact that, for obvious reasons, the South African Government never ask for orders in this country until they have been assured that they will get export licences? Will my right hon. Friend tell us, for example, whether, if they wanted Nimrods, export licences would be available?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeWe have not got a request for Nimrods. My hon. Friend is right about the procedure. A request comes and then the British Government reply whether they will give an export licence, and the licence is not given for some time. For example, licences have not yet been issued for the helicopters, because they have not been asked for.
§ Mr. WhiteheadWill the Foreign Secretary tell the House whether any talks are to be held with the two South African officials who are today visiting a Yarrow shipyard and who were reported on the B.B.C. this morning as being very eager to have discussions about the further purchase of frigates?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeI have heard nothing of this matter, but I will look into it.
§ Mr. Boyd-CarpenterWill my right hon. Friend tell us whether the arguments in favour of the supply of these arms in the interests of our own defence are now stronger or weaker than they were when advocated a year or two ago by the then Foreign Secretary and the then Secretary of State for Defence?
§ Sir Alec Douglas-HomeAs my right hon. Friend knows, we are always concerned 22 about the defence of the Indian Ocean and the sea routes, and the arguments for this have become stronger. We also measure the question whether we sell more arms to South Africa by the necessity to keep to the Simonstown Agreement.