§ Question put, That the Clause stand part of the Bill:—
§ The Committee proceeded to a Division—
§ Mr. Loughlin (seated and covered)On a point of order. You will recall, Sir Robert, that I said that I would pursue on a point of order the matter which I raised with you earlier in connection with the manhandling of a servant of the House. It was necessary for me to leave it until now, because the servant of the House immediately after the incident went to a rest room and had a cup of tea. I have taken the opportunity of talking to the servant of the House concerned.
Like most servants of the House, he is reluctant to complain about the conduct of hon. Members, but it was clear to me from his answers to questions which I put that he was conscious of not being 1052 treated with the kind of courtesy with which he should have been treated. I am satisfied that there is just cause for, and I am asking you to institute, an investigation into the incident to safeguard servants of the House from the thuggery to which, apparently, they are to be subjected in future. On this point of order I am simply asking you in your capacity as the Chairman of Ways and Means to institute an investigation into the incident.
§ Mr. Maurice Edelman(seated and covered) (Coventry, North)Further to that point of order. This is by no means a frivolous matter. Indeed, it is a very grave matter affecting every hon. Member. The House has traditionally taken very grave notice of any physical altercation involving an hon. Member, and so it has been throughout the history of the Commons.
It will be within your recollection, Sir Robert, that some years ago a Member of the House was involved in a physical clash with a journalist at one of the bars of the House, and the matter was treated as one of grave consequence and it was reported to a Committee of Privileges. At that time, Mr. Winston Churchill, as he was then, referred to the great 1053 significance of any hon. Member being involved in a physical altercation of that kind. The matter was taken extremely seriously.
As this seems to be a matter involving the privileges of the House and as it might involve a grave contempt of the House of Commons, I ask you in furtherance of what my hon. Friend the Member for Gloucestershire, West (Mr.
| Division No. 101.] | AYES | [2.56 a.m. |
| Adley, Robert | Digby, Simon Wingfield | Howell, David (Guildford) |
| Alison, Michael (Barkston Ash) | Dixon, Piers | Howell, Ralph (Norfolk, N.) |
| Allason, James (Hemel Hempstead) | Dodds-Parker, Douglas | Hunt, John |
| Archer, Jeffrey (Louth) | Douglas-Home, Rt. Hn. Sir Alec | Hutchison, Michael Clark |
| Astor, John | Drayson, G. B. | Iremonger, T. L. |
| Atkins, Humphrey | du Cann, Rt. Hn. Edward | James, David |
| Awdry, Daniel | Eden, Sir John | Jenkin, Patrick (Woodford) |
| Baker, Kenneth (St. Marylebone) | Edwards, Nicholas (Pembroke) | Jessel, Toby |
| Baker, W. H. K. (Banff) | Elliot, Capt. Walter (Carshalton) | Johnson Smith, G. (E. Grinstead) |
| Balniel, Lord | Elliott, R. W. (N'c'tle-upon-Tyne,N.) | Jopling, Michael |
| Barber, Rt. Hn. Anthony | Emery, Peter | Joseph, Rt. Hn. Sir Keith |
| Batsford, Brian | Eyre, Reginald | Kellett, Mrs. Elaine |
| Beamish, Col. Sir Tufton | Farr, John | Kershaw, Anthony |
| Bell, Ronald | Fell, Anthony | Kilfedder, James |
| Bennett, Dr. Reginald (Gosport) | Fenner, Mrs. Peggy | Kimball, Marcus |
| Benyon, W. | Fidler, Michael | King, Evelyn (Dorset, S.) |
| Berry, Hn. Anthony | Finsberg, Geoffrey (Hampstead) | King, Tom (Bridgwater) |
| Biffen, John | Fletcher-Cooke, Charles | Kinsey, J. R. |
| Biggs-Davison, John | Fookes, Miss Janet | Kirk, Peter |
| Blaker, Peter | Fortescue, Tim | Kitson, Timothy |
| Boardman, Tom (Leicester, S.W.) | Foster, Sir John | Knight, Mrs. Jill |
| Body, Richard | Fowler, Norman | Knox, David |
| Boscawen, Robert | Fox, Marcus | Lambton, Antony |
| Bossom, Sir Clive | Fraser,Rt.Hn.Hugh(St'fford & Stone) | Lane, David |
| Bowden, Andrew | Fry, Peter | Langford-Holt, Sir John |
| Boyd-Carpenter, Rt. Hn. John | Galbraith, Hn. T. G. | Legge-Bourke, Sir Harry |
| Braine, Bernard | Gardner, Edward | Le Marchant, Spencer |
| Bray, Ronald | Gibson-Watt, David | Lewis, Kenneth (Rutland) |
| Brewis, John | Gilmour, Ian (Norfolk, C.) | Lloyd, Ian (P'tsm'th, Langstone) |
| Brinton, Sir Tatton | Gilmour, Sir John (Fife, E.) | Longden, Gilbert |
| Brocklebank-Fowler, Christopher | Glyn, Dr. Alan | Loveridge, John |
| Brown, Sir Edward (Bath) | Goodhart, Philip | McAdden, Sir Stephen |
| Bruce-Cardyne, J. | Goodhew, Victor | MacArthur, Ian |
| Bryan, Paul | Gorst, John | McCrindle, R. A. |
| Bachanan-Smith, Alick(Angus,N&M) | Gower, Raymond | McLaren, Martin |
| Buck, Antony | Grant, Anthony (Harrow, C.) | Maclean, Sir Fitzroy |
| Bullus, Sir Eric | Gray, Hamish | McMaster, Stanley |
| Burden, F. A. | Green, Alan | Macmillan, Maurice (Farnham) |
| Butler, Adam (Bosworth) | Grieve, Percy | McNair-Wilson, Michael |
| Carlisle, Mark | Griffiths, Eldon (Bury St. Edmunds) | McNair-Wilson, Patrick (NewForest) |
| Carr, Rt. Hn. Robert | Grylls, Michael | Maddan, Martin |
| Channon, Paul | Gummer, Selwyn | Madel, David |
| Chapman, Sydney | Gurden, Harold | Maginnis, John E. |
| Chataway, Rt. Hn. Christopher | Hall, Miss Joan (Keighley) | Marples, Rt. Hn. Ernest |
| Chichester-Clark, R. | Hall-Davis, A. G. F. | Marten, Neil |
| Churchill, W. S. | Hamilton, Michael (Salisbury) | Mather, Carol |
| Clark, William (Surrey E.) | Hannam, John (Exeter) | Maude, Angus |
| Clarke, Kenneth (Rushcliffe) | Harrison, Brian (Maldon) | Maudling, Rt. Hn. Reginald |
| Clegg, Walter | Harrison, Col. Sir Harwood (Eye) | Mawby, Ray |
| Harvey, Sir Arthur Vere | Maxwell-Hyslop, R. J. | |
| Cockeram, Eric | Haselhurst, Alan | Meyer, Sir Anthony |
| Cooke, Robert | Havers, Michael | Mills, Peter (Torrington) |
| Coombs, Derek | Hawkins, Paul | Mills, Stratton (Belfast, N.) |
| Cooper, A. E | Hayhoe, Barney | Miscampbell, Norman |
| Cordle, John | Heseltine, Michael | Mitchell,Lt.-Col.C.(Aberdeenshire,W) |
| Cormack, Patrick | Hicks, Robert | Mitchell, David (Basingstoke) |
| Costain, A. P. | Higgins, Terence L. | Moate, Roger |
| Critchley, Julian | Hiley, Joseph | Molyneaux, James |
| Crouch, David | Hill, John E. B. (Norfolk, S.) | Money, Ernle |
| Crowder, F. P. | Hill, James (Southampton, Test) | Monks, Mrs. Connie |
| Curran, Charles | Holland, Philip | Montgomery, Fergus |
| Davies, Rt. Hn. John (Knutsford) | Holt, Miss Mary | More, Jasper |
| d'Avigdor-Goldsmid, Sir Henry | Hordern, Peter | Morgan, Geraint (Denbigh) |
| d'Avigdor-Goldsmid, Maj.-Gen. Jack | Hornby, Richard | Morgan-Giles, Rear-Adm. |
| Dean, Paul | Hornsby-Smith,Rt.Hn.Dame Patricia | Morrison, Charles (Devizes) |
| Deedes, Rt. Hn. W. F. | Howe, Hn. Sir Geoffrey (Reigate) | Mudd, David |
§ Loughlin) has said to report the matter to Mr. Speaker with a view to its being raised with the Committee of Privileges.
The ChairmanI will ask for a report from the Serjeant at Arms and consider the matter when I have it.
§ The Committee having divided: Ayes 297, Noes 251.
| Murton, Oscar | Ridsdale, Julian | Thomas, Rt. Hn. Peter (Hendon, S.) |
| Nabarro, Sir Gerald | Roberts, Michael (Cardiff, N.) | Thompson, Sir Richard (Croydon, S.) |
| Heave, Airey | Roberts, Wyn (Conway) | Tilney, John |
| Nicholls, Sir Harmar | Rodgers, Sr John (Sevenoaks) | Trafford, Dr Anthony |
| Normanton, Tom | Rossi, Hugh (Hornsey) | Trew, Peter |
| Nott, John | Rost, Peter | Tugendhat, Christopher |
| Onslow, Cranley | Royle, Anthony | Turton, Rt. Hn. R. H. |
| Oppenheim, Mrs. Sally | Russell, Sir Ronald | Vaughan, Dr. Gerard |
| Osborn, John | St. John-Stevas, Norman | Vickers, Dame Joan |
| Owen, Idris (Stockport, N.) | Scott, Nicholas | Waddington, David |
| Page, Graham (Crosby) | Shaw, Michael (Sc'b'gh & Whitby) | Walder, David (Clitheroe) |
| Page, John (Harrow, W.) | Shelton, William (Clapham) | Walker, Rt. Hn. Peter (Worcester) |
| Parkinson, Cecil (Enfield, W.) | Simeons, Charles | Walker-Smith, Rt. Hn. Sir Derek |
| Peel, John | Sinclair, Sir George | Walt, Patrick |
| Percival, Ian | Skeet, T. H. H. | Walters, Dennis |
| Peyton, Rt. Hn. John | Smith, Dudley (W'wick & L'mington) | Ward, Dame Irene |
| Pike, Miss Mervyn | Soref, Harold | Warren, Kenneth |
| Pink, R. Bonner | Spence, John | Weatherill, Bernard |
| Pounder, Rafton | Sproat, Iain | Wells, John (Maidstone) |
| Powell, Rt. Hn. J. Enoch | Stainton, Keith | White, Roger (Gravesend) |
| Stanbrook, Ivor | Whitelaw, Rt. Hn. William | |
| Price, David (Eastleigh) | Stewart-Smith, D. G. (Belper) | Wiggin, Jerry |
| Proudfoot, Wilfred | Stoddart-Scott, Col. Sir M. | Wilkinson, John |
| Pym, Rt. Hn. Francis | Stokes, John | Wolrige-Gordon, Patrick |
| Quennell, Miss J. M. | Stuttaford, Dr. Tom | Wood, Rt. Hn. Richard |
| Raison, Timothy | Sutcliffe, John | Woodhouse, Hn. Christopher |
| Ramsden, Rt. Hn. James | Tapsell, Peter | Woodnutt, Mark |
| Rawlinson, Rt. Hn. Sir Peter | Taylor, Sir Charles (Eastbourne) | Worsley, Marcus |
| Redmond, Robert | Taylor,Eelward M.(G'gow,Cathcart) | Wylie, Rt. Hn. N. R. |
| Reed, Laurance (Bolton, E.) | Taylor, Frank (Moss Side) | Younger, Hn. George |
| Rees, Peter (Dover) | Taylor, Robert (Croydon, N.W.) | |
| Reyes-Davies, W. R. | Tebbit, Norman | TELLERS FOR THE AYES: |
| Renton, Rt. Hn. Sir David | Temple, John M. | Mr. Hector Monro and |
| Rhys Williams, Sir Brandon | Thatcher, Rt. Hn. Mrs. Margaret | Mr. Keith Speed. |
| Ridley, Hn. Nicholas | Thomas, John Stradling (Monmouth) | |
| NOES | ||
| Albu, Austen | Cunningham, Dr. J. A. (Whitehaven) | Grant, John D. (Islington, E.) |
| Allaun, Frank (Salford, E.) | Dalyell, Tam | Griffiths, Eddie (Brightside) |
| Allen, Scholefield | Darling, Rt. Hn. George | Griffiths, Will (Exchange) |
| Archer, Peter (Rowley Regis) | Davidson, Arthur | Hamilton, James (Bothwell) |
| Armstrong, Ernest | Davies, Denzil (Llanelly) | Hamilton, William (Fife, W.) |
| Ashton, Joe | Davies, G. Elfed (Rhondda, E.) | Hannan, William (G'gow, Maryhill) |
| Atkinson, Norman | Davies, Ifor (Gower) | Hardy, Peter |
| Bagier, Gordon A. T. | Davis, Clinton (Hackney, C.) | Harper, Joseph |
| Barnes, Michael | Deakins, Eric | Harrison, Walter (Wakefield) |
| Barnett, Joel | de Freitas, Rt. Hn. Sir Geoffrey | Hart, Rt. Hn. Judith |
| Beaney, Alan | Delargy, H. J. | Hattersley, Roy |
| Benn, Rt. Hn. Anthony Wedgwood | Dell, Rt. Hn. Edmund | Healey, Rt. Hn. Denis |
| Bennett, James (Glasgow, Bridgeton) | Dempsey, James | Heffer, Eric S. |
| Bidwell, Sydney | Doig, Peter | Hilton, W. S. |
| Bishop, E. S. | Dormand, J. D. | Horam, John |
| Blenkinsop, Arthur | Douglas, Dick (Stirlingshire, E.) | Houghton, Rt. Hn. Douglas |
| Boardman, H. (Leigh) | Douglas-Mann, Bruce | Hewell, Denis (Small Heath) |
| Booth, Albert | Driberg, Tom | Huckfield, Leslie |
| Bottomley, Rt. Hn. Arthur | Duffy, A. E. P. | Hughes, Rt. Hn. Cledwyn (Anglesey) |
| Boyden, James (Bishop Auckland) | Dunn, James A. | Hughes, Mark (Durham) |
| Bradley, Tom | Dunnett, Jack | Hughes, Robert (Aberdeen, N.) |
| Brown, Bob (N'c'tle-upon-Tyne, W.) | Eadie, Alex | Hughes, Roy (Newport) |
| Brown, Hugh D. (G'gow, Provan) | Edelman, Maurice | Hunter, Adam |
| Janner, Greville | ||
| Brown, Ronald (Shoreditch & F'bury) | Edwards, Robert (Bilston) | Jay, Rt. Hn. Douglas |
| Buchan, Norman | Edwards, William (Merioneth) | Jeger,Mrs.Lena(H'b'n&St.P'cras,S.) |
| Buchanan, Richard (G'gow, Sp'burn) | Ellis, Tom | Jenkins, Hugh (Putney) |
| Butler, Mrs. Joyce (Wood Green) | English, Michael | Jenkins, Rt. Hn. Roy (Stechford) |
| Callaghan, Rt. Hn. James | Evans, Fred | John, Brynmor |
| Campbell, I. (Dunbartonshire, W.) | Fernyhough, E. | Johnson, Carol (Lewisham, S.) |
| Cant, R. B. | Fisher, Mrs.Doris(B'ham,Ladywood) | Johnson, James (K'ston-on-Hull, W.) |
| Carmichael, Neil | Fitch, Alan (Wigan) | Johnson, Walter (Derby, S.) |
| Carter, Ray (Birmingh'm, Northfield) | Fletcher, Raymond (Ilkeston) | Jones, Barry (Flint, E.) |
| Carter-Jones, Lewis (Eccles) | Fletcher, Ted (Darlington) | Jones, Dan (Burnley) |
| Castle, Rt. Hn. Barbara | Foley, Maurice | Jones, T. Alec (Rhondda, W.) |
| Clark, David (Colne Valley) | Foot, Michael | Kaufman, Gerald |
| Cocks, Michael (Bristol, S.) | Ford, Ben | Kelley, Richard |
| Cohen, Stanley | Forrester, John | Kerr, Russell |
| Coleman, Donald | Fraser, John (Norwood) | Kinnock, Neil |
| Concannon, J. D. | Freeson, Reginald | Lambie, David |
| Conlan, Bernard | Galpern, Sir Myer | Lamond, James |
| Corbet, Mrs. Freda | Garrett, W. E. | Latham, Arthur |
| Cox, Thomas (Wandsworth, C.) | Gilbert, Dr. John | Lawson, George |
| Crawshaw, Richard | Ginsburg, David | Leadbitter, Ted |
| Cronin, John | Gordon Walker, Rt. Hn. P. C. | Lee, Rt. Hn. Frederick |
| Cunningham, G. (Islington, S.W.) | Grant, George (Morpeth) | Leonard, Dick |
| Lestor, Miss Joan | Mulley, Rt. Hn. Frederick | Sillars, James |
| Lever, Rt. Hn. Harold | Murray, Ronald King | Skinner, Dennis |
| Lewis, Arthur (W. Ham, N.) | Ogden, Eric | Smith, John (Lanarkshire, N.) |
| Lewis, Ron (Carlisle) | O'Halloran, Michael | Spearing, Nigel |
| Lipton, Marcus | O'Malley, Brian | Spriggs, Leslie |
| Lomas, Kenneth | Oram, Bert | Stallard, A. W. |
| Loughlin, Charles | Orbach, Maurice | Stewart, Rt. Hn. Michael (Fulham) |
| Lyon, Alexander W. (York) | Orme, Stanley | Stoddart, David (Swindon) |
| Lyons, Edward (Bradford, E.) | Oswald, Thomas | Stonehouse, Rt. Hn. John |
| Mabon, Dr. J. Dickson | Owen, Dr. David (Plymouth, Sutton) | Strang, Gavin |
| McBride, Neil | Paget, R. T. | Summerskill, Hn. Dr. Shirley |
| McCartney, Hugh | Palmer, Arthur | Swain, Thomas |
| McElhone, Frank | Parker, John (Dagenham) | Taverns, Dick |
| McGuire, Michael | Parry, Robert (Liverpool, Exchange) | Thomas,Rt.Hn,Gearge (Cardiff,W.) |
| Mackenzie, Gregor | Pavitt, Laurie | Thomas, Jeffrey (Abertillery) |
| Mackie, John | Peart, Rt. Hn. Fred | Thomson, Rt. Hn. G. (Dundee, E.) |
| Mackintosh, John P. | Pendry, Tom | Tinn, James |
| Maclennan, Robert | Pentland, Norman | Tomney, Frank |
| McMillan, Tom (Glasgow, C.) | Perry, Ernest G. | Torney, Tom |
| McNamara, J. Kevin | Prentice, Rt. Hn. Reg. | Urwin, T, W. |
| Varley, Eric G. | ||
| Mahon, Simon (Bootle) | Prescott, John | Wainwright, Edwin |
| Mallalieu, J. P. W. (Huddersfield, E). | Price, J. T. (Westhoughton) | Walker, Harold (Doncaster) |
| Marks, Kenneth | Price, William (Rugby) | Wallace, George |
| Marquand, David | Probert, Arthur | Watkins, David |
| Marsh, Rt. Hn. Richard | Reed, D. (Sedgefield) | Weitzman, David |
| Mason, Rt. Hn. Roy | Rees, Merlyn (Leeds, S.) | Wellbeloved, James |
| Meacher, Michael | Richard, Ivor | Wells, William (Walsall, N.) |
| Mellish, Rt. Hn. Robert | Roberts, Albert (Normanton) | White, James (Glasgow, Pollok) |
| Mendelson, John | Roberts,Rt.Hn.Goronwy(Caernarvon) | Whitlock, William |
| Mikardo, Ian | Roderick, Caerwyn E.(Br'c'n&R'dnor) | Willey, Rt. Hn. Frederick |
| Millan, Bruce | Rodgers, William (Stockton-on-Tees) | Williams, Alan (Swansea, W.) |
| Miller, Dr. M. S. | Roper, John | Williams, Mrs. Shirley (Hitchin) |
| Milne, Edward (Blyth) | Rose, Paul B. | Wilson, Alexander (Hamilton) |
| Molloy, William | Ross, Rt. Hn. William (Kilmarnock) | Wilson, Rt. Hn. Harold (Huyton) |
| Morgan, Elystan (Cardiganshire) | Sheldon, Robert (Ashton-under-Lyne) | Wilson, William (Coventry, S.) |
| Morris, Alfred (Wythenshawe) | Shore, Rt. Hn. Peter (Stepney) | |
| Morris, Charles R. (Openshaw) | Short,Rt.Hn.Edward(N'c'tle-u-Tyne) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES: |
| Morris, Rt. Hn. John (Aberavon) | Silkin, Rt. Hn. John (Deptford) | Mr. William Handing and |
| Moyle, Roland | Silkin, Hn. S. C. (Dulwich) | Mr. John Golding. |
§ Clause 23 ordered to stand part of the Bill.