POWERS OF THE TRUST (Hansard, 20 January 1971)

Mr. Edward Taylor
I beg to move Amendment No. 3, in page 3, line 26, leave out 'and administer' and insert: 'administer and dispose of'. 1226 The Amendment results from a point raised in Committee by the hon. Member for Glasgow, Woodside (Mr. Carmichael). It specifically enables the Trust to dispose of any property it may receive in the future. It was pointed out in Committee that legacies and donations to the Trust might include heritable property. The working party had expressed the view that this type of property was not in general a very suitable type of investment for the Trust to hold, and Clause 2(4) provides for heritable property in the relevant endowments to be dealt with as may be determined in any particular case.
I undertook in Committee, as reported at column 122 of the OFFICIAL REPORT of the Committee proceedings, to consider whether, as the Bill stood, the Trust had the appropriate powers in relation to heritable property received under paragraph (f). I now think, in view of what was said by the hon. Gentleman then, that for the avoidance of any doubt disposal should be expressly provided for. The Amendment will also extend to any other type of property received by the Trust under this paragraph.
This is another example where, after further reflection on what was said in Committee, we have introduced an Amendment to cater for the point raised.

§ Mr. Carmichael
There was confusion about heritable and other property, and I think that the Amendment clears it up. There should be a very clear distinction, and the Trust should have the power to dispose of property, since we do not want it to become involved in large-scale landowning. I am very pleased that the Minister has moved the Amendment.

Mr. Taylor
I beg to move Amendment No. 4, in page 3, line 30, at end insert: (g) to give advice to a Board of Management or a Regional Hospital Board relating to the investment or management of any such endowment or income as is referred to in paragraph (e) of this section and which is not transferred to the Trust under section 4(1) of this Act, and to recover any expenses reasonably incurred by them in giving such advice from the Board concerned. In Committee, the hon. Member for Aberdeen, North (Mr. Robert Hughes) raised the very interesting suggestion that it might be right to enable the Trust to 1227 give advice on the management of endowments still retained by boards after the new legislation took effect. This was a new point which did not arise directly from the Bill. We promised to look into it, and we now accept that it is very valid. The Amendment simply makes it clear that the powers of the Trust include the giving of advice on this matter.
I think that the hon. Gentleman will accept that it is necessary and reasonable that where the Trust is to provide such a service it should not be out of pocket in so doing. That would in effect penalise all the boards from which funds are transferred to the Trust. Provision for recovery of expenses is, therefore, included.
This is also consistent with the provisions in Clause 6(1) that the expenses of the Trust should be deducted from the total income of relevant endowments before this is distributed in accordance with schemes to be made and, putting in that one proviso, we accept that this is an interesting and valid addition to the Bill. In those circumstances, I hope the House will accept the Amendment.