§ 5. Mr. Sheldonasked the Minister of Aviation Supply if he will make a further statement on the Concorde.
§ 7. Mr. Wallasked the Minister of Aviation Supply if he will make another statement on the progress of the Concorde programme.
§ Mr. CorfieldI have nothing to add to the reply I gave to the hon. Member on Wednesday, 18th November.—[Vol. 806, c. 1212–5.]
§ Mr. SheldonWhat is the right hon. Gentleman's latest estimate of the cost of development of Concorde? Will he undertake that he will give no further authorisation for the purchase or production of parts or components until a decision is finally taken on this aircraft, and may we know when that is likely to be?
§ Mr. CorfieldThe total estimate is still the same as the figure I gave in my earlier statement, £825 million. As regards authorisations in the future, the hon. Gentleman will appreciate that this is a matter for joint decision between my French colleague and myself. We very much hope that by the time we come to the major review in March we shall be in a position to make firm decisions.
§ Mr. WallCould my right hon. Friend say anything about operating Concorde over the United States, and whether we are likely to be given clearance for that?
§ Mr. CorfieldMy hon. Friend speaks of operating over the United States. I think that there is very little—
§ Mr. CorfieldTo the United States, yes. There is the problem of the noise restrictions which are the subject of discussion in the United States, and I am keeping in close touch with how they are going. They could affect the issue very much indeed.
§ Mr. BennAs the Minister has said, and we all know, we are approaching a moment of decision-making on Concorde of immense significance for the aircraft industry and, in particular, as it happens, for my constituency and his. Will he undertake that, before a decision on the future of Concorde is reached by the Government, 1040 the relevant figures and alternatives will be published so that the nation itself may have an opportunity of joining in the discussion before decisions are come to rather than after the Government have taken them?
§ Mr. CorfieldThe right hon. Gentleman will appreciate that the decision must be a Government decision. I think that a prolonged public discussion would not be in the interests of the enterprise.
§ Sir E. BullusMy right hon. Friend knows that this aircraft is a winner. Will he undertake to do all in his power to see that we keep this lead in the aircraft industry?
§ Mr. CorfieldI would only modify my hon. and gallant Friend's comment by saying that I hope very much that it is a winner. It must depend on the commercial potential as we are able to judge it in a few months time.
§ Mr. Leslie HuckfieldAs airlines are being pressed to take firm commercial decisions, can the right hon. Gentleman tell us what payload performance for Concorde has now been guaranteed?
§ Mr. CorfieldThe hon. Gentleman is a bit premature. We have not reached the stage at which the manufacturers are in a position to guarantee payload performance. We hope that we shall reach that stage when the full results of the tests have been evaluated, but that will not be for a month or two.
§ 10. Mr. Wilkinsonasked the Minister of Aviation Supply whether he will now make a further statement on production funding for Concorde.
§ Mr. CorfieldThe manufacture of six production models of Concorde has been authorised and authority has also been given to the firms to order some materials for a further four aircraft.
§ Mr. WilkinsonIs my right hon. Friend aware that B.A.C. has serious overcapacity for production, with grave financial implications for the company? We cannot merely expect airlines to have a commercial judgment on the virtues of the project. We must also take into consideration the faith that the sponsoring Governments have in the worth-whileness of the air liner.
§ Mr. CorfieldThere has been no lack or loss of confidence by the Government. The question which we must consider is whether we should authorise further production finance now before we are in a position to assess the marketing potential.
§ Mr. BennHas the right hon. Gentleman an agreement with the French Government to carry the current rate of spending through to the middle of the year, or is there a break point in March that will make it necessary for him to reach a decision before the airlines may have had full time to assess the aircraft?
§ Mr. CorfieldThere is no break point in the sense meant by the right hon. Gentleman. I am meeting Monsieur Chamant on 2nd February, when I shall have further talks on this aspect before the March review.
§ Mr. AdleyIn view of the importance of the Question which my hon. Friend the Member for Bradford, West (Mr. Wilkinson) put about the Concorde's situation, could my right hon. Friend give an assurance that when he is assessing the advice he receives from his officials and from B.O.A.C. he will judge it historically in the light of B.O.A.C.'s attitude towards other British aircraft since the war?
§ Mr. CorfieldWe must study the advice on the basis of the situation as it exists when that advice is given.
§ 13. Mr. Adleyasked the Minister of Aviation Supply whether he will make an early flight in Concorde.
§ Mr. CorfieldI hope to do so as soon as it can conveniently be arranged.
§ Mr. AdleyI am delighted to hear that. Is my right hon. Friend aware not only of the great morale boost that this will be to those employed on the manufacture of Concorde but equally, if not more important, the great show of the British Government's confidence that this will indicate to customers of Concorde who will shortly be placing their orders?
§ Mr. CorfieldMy hon. Friend flatters me unduly, but I thank him.
§ 14. Mr. William Hamiltonasked the Minister of Aviation Supply what is the latest estimate of the cost of Concorde and whether he will now establish a ceiling 1042 above which such cost will not be met from public funds.
§ Mr. CorfieldAs regards the first part of this Question, I would refer the hon. Member to my statement on 28th October, 1970. The answer to the second part of the Question is, "No".—[Vol. 805, c. 193–196.]
§ Mr. HamiltonDoes the right hon. Gentleman recognise that an increasing volume of opinion fears that this might be the most expensive white elephant in British aviation history? How does he square his reply with the philosophy of the Conservative Party that everyone must stand on their own feet?
§ Mr. CorfieldI cannot think of any more unwise course than to fix a purely arbitrary ceiling at this stage. As I have said on a number of occasions—I have always taken this view, as has the right hon. Member for Bristol, South-East (Mr. Benn)—this stage would be the least sensible stage at which to consider cancelling Concorde.
§ Mr. MartenIn an earlier answer, my right hon. Friend referred to the figure of £800 million or thereabouts. Will he divide by half when he uses that figure so that the British people know that we are paying only £400 million and not £800 million?
§ Mr. CorfieldI take note of that suggestion.
§ 19. Mr. William Rodgersasked the Minister of Aviation Supply what discussions his Department has had with the British Aircraft Corporation and the French Government with a view to guaranteeing the manufacturers of the Concorde against loss in the event of unit production costs exceeding the estimates embodied in the selling price negotiated with airlines.
§ Mr. CorfieldMy Department has had a number of discussions with the manufacturers on the arrangements for the financing of production. These discussions are continuing. The French Government have been kept informed of these discussions.
§ Mr. RodgersWould the right hon. Gentleman say that these discussions do not include any consideration of the prospect of financing Concorde beyond 1043 the development phase, and in particular that there is no question of direct or indirect subsidy to production models for sale to the airlines?
§ Mr. CorfieldI may have misunderstood the hon. Gentleman's Question. These discussions refer to the production phase. We are not considering any form of subsidy or grant at that stage. What we are considering is the terms and conditions of the interest-bearing loans which were the basis on which the last Government proposed to finance Concorde. As the hon. Gentleman will understand, many factors have to be considered.
§ Mr. AdleyDoes my right hon. Friend know whether Air France is submitting evidence to the French Government on Concorde? If it is, will he do his best to see that he has access to it?
§ Mr. CorfieldThat is my constant endeavour.
§ Mr. Leslie HuckfieldIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that the attitude of both B.O.A.C. and Air France in taking up their options on Concorde is crucial? Would it be his policy to continue to subsidise Concorde directly or to expect B.O.A.C. and Air France to do so?
§ Mr. CorfieldThat is a question which must await the future.
§ 21 and 22. Mr. Michael McNair-Wilsonasked the Minister of Aviation Supply (1) what is the estimated research and development cost of the Olympus engines for Concorde;
(2) how many engines have been ordered by his Department for the Concorde project.
§ Mr. CorfieldNineteen bench and 44 flight development engines have been ordered under the Concorde development programme. Authority has also been given for the manufacture of the first 14 production engines. It would not be appropriate at this stage, for reasons of commercial confidence, for me to give the total estimated development cost of the Olympus 593.
§ Mr. McNair-WilsonCan my right hon. Friend say whether the research and development cost is as it was estimated at the beginning of this project? If not, can he give some idea, even in percentage terms, of how much it has risen and 1044 whether the engine supply programme is on time?
§ Mr. CorfieldI cannot say that the estimates have not risen since the outset of the arrangement. I cannot without notice give a percentage increase. As far as I know, the present development is on time but there are other modifications which have to be taken into account.
§ Mr. Leslie HuckfieldWhat percentage of this research and development cost is being spent on the reduction of lateral noise and smoke pollution? Can the right hon. Gentleman say where in this country the majority of these engines will be made?
§ Mr. CorfieldI cannot give answers now to those supplementary questions. If the hon. Gentleman will put them down on the Order Paper I will endeavour to do so, but these costs are difficult to identify.
§ Mr. OnslowWhen can we expect the first flight of a Concorde with the modified engines?
§ Mr. CorfieldI shall have to ask my hon. Friend to give me notice of that question.
§ Mr. William RodgersThe right hon. Gentleman referred to commercial considerations. While accepting that, in certain circumstances, this may be a reason for not giving detailed figures, will he not be more explicit now, because there seems no obvious reason why figures should not be given without prejudice?
§ Mr. CorfieldI have some sympathy with the right hon. Gentleman, but the problem is that the figures contain certain contingencies, and I think that they are better not published.