§ 23. Mr. Coombsasked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry whether the United Kingdom will take the initiative in proposing at the next European Free Trade Association Council meeting that further non-tariff barriers should be removed.
§ Mr. Anthony GrantE.F.T.A. is currently engaged in a great deal of useful work on the removal of non-tariff barriers, particularly in the technical field. I do not consider that any additional stimulus is needed at the present time.
§ Mr. CoombsI thank my hon. Friend for his reply, but will he please say whether anything is being done about the control and marking of precious metals?
§ Mr. GrantA draft agreement on the control and marking of articles of precious metals is in the process of being drawn up.
§ Mr. MasonI am sorry that the hon. Gentleman should have said that no 505 stimulus is required at present. This is not just a matter of the effect on non-tariff barriers. Is not he aware of the danger of restrictive trade legislation emanating from the United States, which has been temporarily suppressed but which might emerge again? Would it not be a good thing if the Government took the initiative proposed in U.N.C.T.A.D. to start a worldwide discussion on the abolition of non-tariff barriers, therefore getting away from the idea of the United States and probably other countries considering restrictive legislation?
§ Mr. GrantThe right hon. Gentleman is right to draw attention to the dangers of restrictive legislation in the United States, which has caused Her Majesty's Government very great concern. Our view has been expressed in a number of ways.
On the immediate question, E.F.T.A. is at least a useful and cohesive organisation in which immediate discussions on non-tariff barriers can take place. I do not want the right hon. Gentleman to imagine that we are not very alive to the dangers from the United States.
§ 24. Mr. Martenasked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry whether he will state the number of professional staff and the number of clerical staff, respectively, employed in the Secretariat of the European Free Trade Association in Geneva on the last available date.
§ Mr. Anthony GrantThe E.F.T.A. Secretariat currently employs 46 staff in the higher and professional grades and a further 46 in the general service grade.
§ Mr. MartenIs that not an object lesson in achieving a wider home market for Britain at relatively low cost? What is the equivalent number of people employed at the E.E.C. at Brussels?
§ Mr. GrantI should like to say how very efficiently this Secretariat does its job, but I warn the House that a straight comparison with the E.E.C. Commission is entirely misleading, because E.F.T.A. is merely a secretariat, whereas the E.E.C. Commission has policy-making and regulating functions also.
§ Mr. EadieIs not the real comparison that we shall have some control over E.F.T.A. but we shall have no control whatsoever over the E.E.C. Secretariat 506 and will be in the hands of other people deciding policies on behalf of Britain?
§ Mr. GrantI do not accept that. It is well known that we shall have an opportunity to make our views felt.
§ 27. Mr. Clinton Davisasked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what attempts are being made further to increase the membership of the European Free Trade Association.
§ 31. Mr. Bodyasked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what attempts are being made to enlarge the membership of the European Free Trade Association.
§ 52. Mrs. Renée Shortasked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what proposals he has for the enlargement of the membership of the European Free Trade Association.
§ Mr. Anthony GrantNo attempts are at present being made to enlarge E.F.T.A. The Stockholm Convention makes provision for any State, which so wishes, to apply for membership.
§ Mr. DavisWhy are no steps being taken to enlarge E.F.T.A. and extend its activities? Would not it be infinitely better for Britain if we were to enlarge E.F.T.A. rather than commit ourselves to spending about 23 per cent. of the Common Market budget by 1980? Would it not be better to undertake the extension of E.F.T.A. rather than negotiate capitulation terms with the Common Market countries?
§ Mr. GrantThis is entirely a matter of debate, and we shall be debating it later this week, anyway. I emphasise that there is absolutely nothing to stop any country, if it so wishes, from applying for membership, but the initiative must come from the country which wishes to join.
§ Mrs. Renée ShortAs the Minister has said that E.F.T.A. is a very useful organisation, and as it certainly does not carry the unpopularity in Britain that entry into the Common Market does, not only on economic grounds but on political and military grounds as well, should not the hon. Gentleman take some initiative and try to extend and expand the E.F.T.A. organisation, not only in the interests of 507 Britain but also in the interests of the existing E.F.T.A. members?
§ Mr. GrantI understand the hon. Lady's point of view, which is one point of view on this argument. I reiterate that there is nothing to stop a country from applying for membership. It is not for us at this stage to take any initiative to try to persuade a country to take a course of action which it should take for itself.
§ Mr. MolloyIn so far as we are members of E.F.T.A., do we not as a nation have a right to make recommendations to enlarge it? Are not the rather dramatic and frightening figures which the Minister gave in reply to the hon. Member for Banbury (Mr. Marten) something which the nation ought to know? The big difference is that we are doing very well with E.F.T.A. but that there is a grave danger of our being totally submerged under bureacracy if we go into the E.E.C.
§ Mr. GrantI thought that I was extremely careful not to give any dangerous figures to my hon. Friend the Member for Banbury. I understand the hon. Gentleman's point of view, but it does not take us any further than the fact that E.F.T.A. is a working organisation and there is the opportunity for other countries to apply to be members of it, if they so wish.
§ 36. Mr. Alfred Morrisasked the Secretary of State for Trade and industry what was the total value of United Kingdom exports to other members of the European Free Trade Association in the first nine months of 1970.
§ 38. Mr. Martenasked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry by what percentage exports from the United Kingdom to each of the members of the European Free Trade Association increased in the first nine months of 1970.
§ Mr. Anthony GrantSince the Answer contains some detailed figures, I will circulate these in the OFFICIAL REPORT. Exports to E.F.T.A. countries in the first nine months of 1970 were £938 million, an increase of 18 per cent. over the corresponding period of 1969.
§ Mr. MorrisIs the hon. Gentleman aware that the figures which he quoted are extremely important in terms of our total foreign trade? Would he agree 508 that it would be asinine in any way adversely to affect this part of Britain's foreign trade? Are all our E.F.T.A. partners satisfied with the quality of our consultation with them about the progress of Britain's negotiations to join the Community?
§ Mr. GrantAs far as I am aware, there is no dissatisfaction among our E.F.T.A. partners. I have visited a number of them in Stockholm and discussed this problem with them. They are very pleased with the way in which they have been kept informed on the progress of these negotiations and many of them are negotiating in what they are hoping will be fruitful discussions.
§ Mr. MartenIs not this 18 per cent. increase in our exports to E.F.T.A. very much in line with the increase in our exports to the Common Market countries? That being so, what steps are the Government taking to study the implications of a wider free trade area between the Six and the Seven, rather than this dubious venture to try to get into the Community?
§ Mr. GrantWhat my hon. Friend says is correct. There has been a similar growth in exports to the E.E.C. countries. However, my hon. Friend should understand that there is no reason to suppose that some sort of wider European E.F.T.A. is likely to be any more negotiable now than it was when E.F.T.A. was originally formed.
§ Mr. JayWould the hon. Gentleman at least give an assurance that Her Majesty's Government will not reach any arrangement with the E.E.C. which would involve erecting new trade barriers against the present members of E.F.T.A.?
§ Mr. GrantThe right hon. Gentleman has been long enough in the House to realise that I could not possibly give an assurance of that nature.
§ Mr. Selwyn GummerIs it not a fact that there are a number of members of E.F.T.A. who are so concerned to have close consultations not only with ourselves but with the members of the E.E.C. that they are applying to join the Community?
§ Mr. MilneIs the hon. Gentleman aware that the figures he has given demonstrate that E.F.T.A. represents our major foothold in Europe? Will not this be in jeopardy if we go ahead with our Common Market entry application?
§ Mr. GrantI do not believe that one can draw that sort of conclusion from the figures I have given. Nor are the consequences which the hon. Gentleman foretells likely.
§ Following is the information:
| UNITED KINGDOM EXPORTS | |
| Country | Increase between January—September Country 1969 and January—September 1970 |
| Per cent. | |
| Finland | 29 |
| Sweden | 19 |
| Norway (including Spitzbergen) | 24 |
| Denmark, Faroe Islands and Greenland | 11 |
| Switzerland and Liechtenstein | 13 |
| Portugal, Azores and Madeira | 13 |
| Austria | 26 |
| Iceland | 52 |
§ 39. Mr. Moyleasked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry what is the total value of trade between the European Free Trade Association and Eastern Europe for the last available year.
§ Mr. Anthony GrantIn 1969 exports of the European Free Trade Area to Eastern Europe were 1,850 million dollars f.o.b. and imports from Eastern Europe were 2,010 million dollars c.i.f.
§ Mr. MoyleWould the hon. Gentleman agree that there are substantial markets as yet untapped in Eastern Europe? As he said that E.F.T.A. is obviously a useful instrument for allowing them to be tapped, may I ask him to say what discussions there have been between ourselves and the Common Market countries about protecting this position should we enter the Community?
§ Mr. GrantI entirely agree that trade with Eastern Europe has great possibilities for the future. However, I do not think there is anything in our discussions with the E.E.C. which is necessarily inconsistent with that.
§ Mrs. Renée ShortHave we had any discussions with the Soviet Union in the recent trade talks about the effect of their signing a treaty with West Germany and 510 the effect that that is likely to have on our trade with Eastern Europe? Is he aware that this is an important matter which seems bound to affect our trade with Eastern Europe, unless we take energetic steps to deal with it?
§ Mr. GrantThe discussions with the Soviet Union in the last week have been confidential beyond what was put out in the communiqué. Regarding the hon. Lady's supplementary question about our relationship with Eastern Europe, I suggest that she tables a Question to my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary.
§ Mr. Biggs-DavisonWhy is one figure quoted f.o.b. and the other c.i.f.?
§ Mr. GrantIf my hon. Friend would care to write to me about that, I will give him a full and, I hope, thoroughly satisfactory answer.
§ Mr. BennShall we have a statement in the House about the talks with Mr. Kirillin so that we may be kept informed?
§ 40. Mr. Finsbergasked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry how many submissions have been made under the complaints procedure of Article 31 of the Convention of the European Free Trade Association for each year since it was formed.
§ Mr. Anthony GrantArticle 31 of the E.F.T.A. Convention has been invoked on four occasions: by Austria against Portugal in 1962, by Denmark against Austria in 1963, and by Norway and Denmark against the United Kingdom in 1965 and 1966 respectively.
§ Mr. FinsbergI thank my hon. Friend for that Answer. In view of the very small number of complaints, does he believe that this is an effective article?
§ Mr. GrantI believe that it is an effective and useful article. I think that all these cases have been resolved to the satisfaction of the countries concerned.