HC Deb 23 February 1971 vol 812 cc284-92
3. Mr. Ashley

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what directions to date he has issued to local authorities to enable them to implement the provisions of the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act, 1970.

The Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Security (Mr. Michael Alison)

My right hon. Friend has no powers to issue any such directions but a circular of guidance was issued in August last.

Mr. Ashley

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that that circular is a shabby document, because it exaggerates the difficulty of finding out who the disabled people are and where they live? Is he further aware that the most recent estimates suggest that nearly two million people are not on the register of local authorities? Would he therefore consider issuing a new circular to encourage local authorities to compile a 100 per cent. register of ail disabled people—rather than discouraging them?

Mr. Alison

It was a factual circular which it would be wrong to describe as "shabby". The full extent of disability is precisely what we are examining through our national surveys. The hon. Gentleman will know that a number of the "missing" disabled, if there are such large numbers, are already receiving services under other Acts.

Dame Irene Ward

To help with the implementation of the Act, would my hon. Friend think it a good idea to hold a general conference at his Ministry to discover the problems, because in the introduction of any new Measure which contains wide-ranging provisions local authorities would welcome an opportunity to hear of the problems which are faced by other local authorities? Might it not also help the Minister to have this information?

Mr. Alison

I certainly note my lion. Friend's suggestion. There are, of course, a large number of inter-Departmental discussions taking place on this subject the whole time. If an initiative comes from local authorities supplementary to that which already exists, we shall certainly consider it.

4. Mr. Weitzman

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what guidance he has given to local authorities as required by Section 2 of the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act, 1970, in order that they may carry out the duties imposed upon them under that Section.

7. Mr. Conlan

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what recent advice he has given to local authorities with regard to the implementation of the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act, 1970.

37. Mr. Latham

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what advice he is giving local authorities about the financial provision in their 1971–72 estimates for the implementation of the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act, 1970.

Sir K. Joseph

I will, if I may, answer Questions Nos. 4,7 and 37 together.

A comprehensive circular of guidance has been sent to local authorities about the provisions of the Act, and further advice will be given on specific matters at the proper time. The Rate Support Grant negotiations of last November allowed for appreciable development of these services over the next two financial years.

Mr. Weitzman

Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that under Section 2 of this Act local authorities rely, for the carrying out of their duties, on general guidance and regulations issued by the Minister? As the Labour Government ensured, before the General Election, that the Act would become law by 29th August of last year, is it not disgraceful that nothing practical has yet been done to provide local authorities with guidance on this matter?

Sir K. Joseph

The House knows that local government is at present reorganising its services into new social service departments. At the same time, the national survey of handicapped launched by the last Government is being printed. We shall, during the next few months, be publishing that report, and as soon as possible thereafter guidance to local authorities on how they should carry out their local surveys of need in relation to the handicapped will be issued to help them fulfil their obligations under Section 2 of the Act.

Mr. Speaker

Mr. Conlan.

Mr. Weitzman

On a point of order. In view of the unsatisfactory nature of that answer, I beg to give notice that I shall raise this matter on the Adjournment.

Mr. Conlan

May I ask the Secretary of State—

Mr. Speaker

Order. I am afraid that I have no option but to call the next Question, the hon. and learned Member for Stoke Newington and Hackney, North (Mr. Weitzman) having given notice to raise the matter on the Adjournment, so shutting out about four supplementary questions.

Mr. Edwin Wainwright

On a point of order. I distinctly heard you, Mr. Speaker, call my hon. Friend the Member for Gateshead, East (Mr. Conlan) to put a supplementary question before my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Stoke Newington and Hackney, North (Mr. Weiztman) gave notice of his intention to raise the matter on the Adjournment.

Mr. Speaker

I have every sympathy with the hon. Gentleman, but I am afraid that I have no option but call the next Question. Mr. McElhone, No. 5.

Later—

Mr. Speaker

As there may have been some confusion over Question No. 7, for which I may have been partly responsible, I now invite the hon. Member for Gateshead, East to ask Question No. 7.

Mr. Conlan

I am much obliged, Mr. Speaker.

Sir K. Joseph

I have already answered it with Question No.4.

Mr. Conlan

In spite of the right hon. Gentleman's explanation, many thousands of people are still anxiously awaiting implementation of the Act. Will he take whatever steps he can to bring about its early implementation?

Sir K. Joseph

Implementation of the Act will not by itself increase the services available to the people concerned. If the hon. Gentleman knows of people who are waiting for the services which are already, in principle, authorised, let him put them in touch with the local authorities or with me.

5. Mr. McElhone

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services if his Department will initiate a television and Press campaign to inform all chronically sick and disabled persons of their rights under the 1970 Act.

31. Mr. Weitzman

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services whether he will take immediate steps through radio, television and the Press to acquaint all chronically sick and disabled persons with their rights and the duties imposed upon local authorities under the provisions of the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act, 1970.

Sir K. Joseph

The Act is already receiving very wide publicity. In my view, the requirement now is not for general publicity but for local information about the need for, and availability of, services in each area.

Mr. McElhone

Would the right hon. Gentleman agree that as most local authority social work departments are not able fully to appreciate the implications of Sections 1 and 2 of the Act, he would be doing a service for the disabled and handicapped if such a television and Press advertising campaign were initiated?

Sir K. Joseph

The House should recognise that the task ahead of local government in increasing help for the handicapped is enormous and that the known need will tax to the full local government resources, when reorganised. There is at this stage a need to get on with it locally, which local government will be able to do when its social service departments are in action.

Mr. Weitzman

I apologise for my earlier statement. I did not fully appreciate the position.

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the tremendous ignorance that exists among local authorities, among the chronically sick and disabled and among his own officers about the working of the Act? Does he recall that in regard to pensions for the over–80s he went on television to announce that a sum of £60,000 was to be paid, but that only 100,000 people were affected? About two million chronically sick and disabled people are affected here. Are the Government so chronically sick and disabled that they are reluctant to take a step of this kind?

Sir K. Joseph

The hon. and learned Gentleman is getting his analogies wrong. In respect of the very old, we voted a specific sum and it was waiting to be collected. The needs of the disabled are infinitely varied and cannot be met by a simple act of will on the part of the Government. They need an infinite range of different services. Local publicity and local services are obviously what is needed.

Mrs. Sally Oppenheim

Is my right hon. Friend aware that hon. Members on this side of the House entirely support the underlying purpose of the Act and would like to see it implemented as widely as possible, but that there is growing evidence that some hon. Gentlemen opposite, and others, are determined to use the Act as a political football, which would be entirely detrimental to the disabled, whom we all want to help?

Sir K. Joseph

I make no complaint whatever of criticism from hon. Gentlemen opposite. However, my hon. Friend is right in that disappointment could be created among the disabled if expectations were raised so high of services that could not, in the nature of things, be created automatically on a vast scale.

Mr. Mayhew

Is the right hon. Gentleman satisfied that it is widely enough understood which categories of mentally handicapped people are provided for under this admirable Act? Will he define those categories specifically and make clear that some types of mentally sick, as well as the subnormal, are included?

Sir K. Joseph

The Act does not define "handicap" in that way. The hon. Gentleman knows that the spectrum of Government and local authority services is seeking to improve the provision for the mentally handicapped and mentally ill in hospital and in the community.

Dame Irene Ward

Does my right hon. Friend agree that hon. Members can themselves do a great deal in their constituencies to help in this matter? Is he aware, for example, that I should be horrified to hear that hon. Members did not, when handicapped people came to see them, put them in touch with their local authorities? In other words, would my right hon. Friend agree that not just the Secretary of State and Ministers generally but hon. Members have a responsibility in this sphere?

Sir K. Joseph

My hon. Friend sets an admirable example to us all. It is indeed true that hon. Members can do a great service for their constituents and local authorities.

Mr. Edwin Wainwright

The right hon. Gentleman has given the impression that he wants the Act to come into operation very gradually. Will he ensure that with all haste local authorities are given the knowledge they need to implement the Act, bearing in mind that many chronically sick and disabled people are in urgent need of help, especially in the heavy industrial and coal mining areas?

Sir K. Joseph

There is no intention to delay the implementation of the Act. There is just a realistic awareness of the difficulties through which local government is going in the reorganisation imposed on it by both parties.

Mr. Alfred Morris

Would the right hon. Gentleman agree, in regard to the supplementary question posed by my hon. Friend the Member for Woolwich, East (Mr. Mayhew), that Section 28 of the Act empowers him to lay regulations clearing up any difficulty that might exist about the definition of chronic illness, chronic sickness, disability or disablement? In view of the points that have been made by my hon. Friends today, would he agree that he should now lay a regulation providing these interpretations?

Sir K. Joseph

I am aware of the powers. I do not think that the time has come to use them. It would be best to wait and see how the Act is working.

6. Mr. McElhone

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services how much his Department will spend this year on research and development to assist in the mobility and independence of disabled people under Section 22 of the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act, 1970.

Sir K. Joseph

Identifiable expenditure on research and development in this area will amount to about £375,000.

Mr. McElhone

Has the Minister got his priorities right? Does not he agree that by spending more on research and development he could make life much easier for disabled people and, perhaps, save his Department money on home helps, health visitors and so on, while at the same time—which is more important—giving greater freedom and dignity to the disabled?

Sir K. Joseph

I agree in principle that the research here can be effort well spent. If any hon. Member is aware of valuable research which is being neglected by my Department, I shall be delighted to receive evidence about it.

Mr. Pavitt

Will the right hon. Gentleman look again at the £3 million which he is proposing to cut off all the research councils, especially the Medical Research Council, as a result of the additional directive which came out since the Chancellor's October cuts?

Sir K. Joseph

That is not a question for me. My Department has a research budget of its own, and I was answering on that budget. I repeat the invitation to let me have the information for which I asked.

9. Mr. Michael Cocks

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services whether he is aware that there is widespread ignorance on the part of local authorities of the provisions of the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act, 1970; and whether he will take immediate steps to ensure that they are fully informed of their duties under the Act.

Mr. Alison

I have no reason whatever to think that the responsible authorities are not aware of these provisions.

Mr. Cocks

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that reply, but I am concerned about the lack of knowledge in this matter, especially as rate projections are now being made for the coming years. Will he look into it again?

Mr. Alison

I will look into any case which the hon. Gentleman cares to send to me. He will be aware that on 17th August Circulars were sent not only to the clerks but to the relevant heads of departments of counties, county boroughs, London boroughs and urban and rural and district councils. They should all be aware of the provisions of the Act by now.

13. Mr. Alfred Morris

asked the Secretary of State for Social Services what instruction his local appliance centres have sent to disabled persons and, in the case of disabled children, to their parents concerning the effect of Section 20 of the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act, 1970; if he will reproduce a copy of this instruction in the OFFICIAL REPORT; what action he has now taken to review the instruction; and if he will make a statement.

Mr. Alison

Letters were sent to users of attendant-controlled outdoor pushchairs and electric indoor chairs. I am arranging for copies to be reproduced in the OFFICIAL REPORT. The situation in respect of both types of chair is unchanged.

Mr. Morris

The letters from the appliance centres caused considerable concern to the parents of many severely disabled children, including thalidomide children. Will not the hon. Gentleman agree that, if their present vehicles cannot be properly used on the footway, they should now have vehicles which can be used outside the home as well as within it?

Mr. Alison

I note what the hon. Gentleman says. He will appreciate that it places a heavy burden of responsibility upon any Department to ask it to facilitate young thalidomide children to go out of the home on to the pavement, with, perhaps, sharp drops on to the road, without at the same time being able to guarantee complete safety, which we could not do.

The text of the letters is as follows: