HC Deb 18 February 1971 vol 811 cc2117-9
Q1. Mr. Molloy

asked the Prime Minister if he will now seek a meeting with the Prime Minister of Northern Ireland.

The Prime Minister (Mr. Edward Heath)

I met Major Chichester-Clark last weekend at Chequers when we had a useful general discussion of the whole range of issues affecting Northern Ireland.

Mr. Molloy

While thanking the Prime Minister for that reply, may I ask whether he agrees that discrimination, whether it be in Russia, Rhodesia, South Africa or in Northern Ireland, is bound to result in the kind of situation which now exists in Northern Ireland? Is he prepared to consider making a proposal to establish a peace council for the Province which includes people of all religions especially His Eminence the Primate of all Ireland, Cardinal Conway?

The Prime Minister

As a result of these discussions, we came to the conclusion—which my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary mentioned in the debate last Monday—that relations between the communities in Northern Ireland were improving, and I think that the first report of the Ombudsman in Northern Ireland substantiates that fact. The situation now arising is one in which members of a particular minority group apparently are determined to use force to disrupt society there.

As for the second part of the hon. Gentleman's Question, I know that my right hon. Friend is prepared to consider a proposal of this kind. Certainly I welcome the prospect of representatives of the different faiths in Northern Ireland, as well as of various societies, coming together and discussing matters around a table.

Mr. Harold Wilson

Is the Prime Minister aware that the whole House hopes that, under the present Government, as under the previous Government, Government and Opposition can combine to keep out of party politics the rôle of the British troops in Northern Ireland, and that this will be possible, as it has been in the past and I think is still, so long as the troops are seen to be exercising a fair, detached, neutral rôle in Northern Ireland? In furtherance of that, will the right hon. Gentleman assure us that he will set his face against any proposal to rearm the Royal Ulster Contabulary or to reconstitute the B-Specials?

The Prime Minister

I quite agree with the right hon. Gentleman. I am not aware of any different approach. British forces are there to help maintain law and order in support of the civil power in a neutral fashion as regards the communities there.

As for the last part of the right hon. Gentleman's Question, we have always given that assurance, and it remains.

I am sure that we all regret the sudden illnes which has struck down the present Commander-in-Chief in Northern Ireland. Major General Tuzo has been appointed to take his place and will take up his duties at the earliest possible moment.

Mr. Harold Wilson

I am sure that my right hon. and hon. Friends all support what the Prime Minister said about the vary sad illness of the Commander-in-Chief. However, will the right hon. Gentleman reconsider the words which he used when he referred to the Army being there in aid of the civil power? Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that continuously, since August, 1969, the Army, at the invitation of the Northern Ireland Government, is in total control of police and security matters? British troops are not just there in support. They have a special responsibility, which means that this House as well as the Stormont House must be concerned with actions taken not only by the Army but by the police.

The Prime Minister

The right hon. Gentleman is quite right in saying that this House must be concerned about any action taken by the Forces in Northern Ireland, who are responsible to my right hon. and noble Friend the Secretary of State for Defence. At the same time, the Northern Ireland Government have a responsibility as the civil power in respect of the police and the maintenance of law and order. The former Home Secretary pointed out in his speech last Monday that there is a dichotomy. But it can be made to work perfectly well.

Captain Orr

Is the Prime Minister aware that while we all support the fact that both the Army and the police must be impartial in upholding the law, there can be no impartiality between the Forces of the Crown and those who are engaged in subversive activities against the Crown?

The Prime Minister

That surely is a principle which applies whether one is discussing the police or Her Majesty's Forces.