HC Deb 15 February 1971 vol 811 cc1194-6
57. Mr. Douglas

asked the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry if he will publish estimates of the regional breakdown of payment of investment grants in the years 1970–71, 1971–72, 1972–73, 1973–74, and 1974–75.

Mr. Ridley

I regret that information is not available on a regional basis.

Mr. Douglas

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there will be extreme disappointment because of that answer, because a regional breakdown is extremely valuable, particularly for the Scottish position? Would he accept that the way the Government have gone about terminating the investment grants has caused considerable dissatisfaction and inconvenience, particularly in Scotland?

Mr. Ridley

I am sorry the information is not available. It never has been. It would cost a disproportionately large amount to collect it. However, I would not accept at all the hon. Gentleman's assertion that a change from grants to allowances is going to cause considerable inconvenience in Scotland or anywhere else. It is in the long run, we believe, going greatly to improve the economy of Scotland.

Mr. Lane

If my hon. Friend were able to publish corresponding figures for the past four years, would they not show that in most of the regions the expenditure on grants has been disproportionately high in relation to the number of new jobs created?

Mr. Ridley

Although that is a hypothetical question, there has been some evidence, supported even by hon. Gentlemen opposite who formed part of the Government of that time, that this was the case. One of the reasons why the Government have wished to move from grants to allowances has been to make sure that highly capital-intensive projects do not necessarily attract large grants from public money without the certainty that they are profit making as well.

Mr. Ross

On the question of the availability of figures, is the hon. Gentleman aware that figures were given for Scotland by his Department to the Select Committee on Scottish Affairs?

Mr. Ridley

I should like to look into that.

Mr. Bruce-Gardyne

Will my hon. Friend bear in mind, when considering the effect of investment grants in areas like Scotland, that the number of recent company closures which have occurred has been related to the consequences of the huge increase in things like road tax introduced by the previous Government, in addition to the evidence about the payment of investment grants?

Mr. Ridley

I think it is impossible to emphasise too much that the present closures and present difficulties in the regions and in the country as a whole cannot be ascribed to the Government's change from grants to allowances because the changes have not yet had time to have any effect at all. They can only be ascribed to the policy of the previous Government in having a massive money squeeze at a time when wages were rising very highly indeed.

Mr. Michael Foot

Is the hon. Gentleman saying that the change in the system would not have had effect on the numbers of industrialists now applying? How does he account for the drop which has occurred, certainly in Wales and, I understand, in Scotland as well?

Mr. Ridley

If I were to admit that it would have that effect, would the hon. Gentleman be prepared to admit that it was the previous Government's policies which have had the effect of the redun- dancies and closures taking place at present?