Northern Ireland

HC Deb 11 February 1971 vol 811 cc780-2

28. Mr. McMaster

asked the Minister of State for Defence how many searches for arms have been carried out by the Army in Northern Ireland in the past 12 months and with what result, in terms of arms and explosives discovered, arrests made and charges brought for unlawful possession.

Mr. Ian Gilmour

During the past 12 months there have been 572 searches of occupied houses. Since July, 1970, when records were first maintained, an average of 650 vehicles a day have been searched. Searches of unoccupied buildings and of open areas have also been made. In this period, 743 lbs. of explosive, 8,079 yards of fuse, 2.618 detonators, 282 assorted weapons and approximately 40,000 rounds of ammunition have been found. The number of persons charged with unlawful possession totals 171.

Mr. McMaster

While thanking my hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask him, in view of the tragic developments of the past seven days and the number of arms which are being used by extremists and republican elements in attacks on the police, the Army and even women and children, and in view of the amount of explosives used and even publicly flaunted in the streets, to intensify the number of searchers, particularly in those parts where firearms are being repeatedly used?

Mr. Gilmour

Searches are carried out when the G.O.C. has hard information that arms are to be found. Searches are also carried out during action when the security forces see that firing is coming from those houses. Searches in other circumstances are unlikely to be productive. They cause considerable discomfort and damage and are liable to bring sympathy for extremist forces which they do not deserve.

Mr. Simon Mahon

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in a recent report on the B.B.C. it was said that there were 69,000 licensed firearms in the City of Belfast? That is an alarming number. Can the hon. Gentleman say something about that matter?

Mr. Gilmour

The question of licensed firearms, chiefly shotguns, is for the Stormont Government.

Mr. Kilfedder

Is my hon. Friend aware of the grave concern felt in Northern Ireland about the statement made by the head of the Special Branch of the police in the Republic of Eire that arms were imported into Eire and that part of them have been sent to Northern Ireland? Can my hon. Friend give an assurance that every step will be taken to ensure that the arms in Eire in the hands of the I.R.A. will not be allowed to enter across the Northern Ireland border?

Mr. Gilmour

The existence of illegal arms in Northern Ireland, from wherever they come, is a matter of great concern. But statements by the Chief Constable in Eire are not matters for me.

Mr. George Thomson

Can the hon. Gentleman give an assurance that the question of illegal arms and the question raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Bootle (Mr. Simon Mahon) concerning the number of licensed arms in Northern Ireland will be discussed at the forthcoming meeting between the Prime Minister and the Prime Minister of Northern Ireland?

Mr. Gilmour

I have no doubt that that is a very relevant subject which will Come up.

29. Mr. McMaster

asked the Minister of State for Defence what changes have been made in the rôle of the Army in Northern Ireland as a result of recent discussions with the Prime Minister and other members of the Government of Northern Ireland.

Mr. Ian Gilmour

The rôle of the Army in Northern Ireland continues to be to assist the civil power in the maintenance of peace and order, in the firm and impartial enforcement of the law and in the combating of subversion.

Mr. McMaster

In view of the fact that the police have been disarmed and the local militias disbanded as a result of the Hunt Committee's Report, will my hon. Friend make sure that the Army is prepared without hestitation to protect people and property when firearms and explosives are used by seditious elements in their efforts to disrupt the economy—[HON. MEMBERS: "Reading.]— and to impose their political aims on Northern Ireland by force, and to apprehend those responsible?

Mr. Gilmour

The House will be aware that the Army is carrying out the duties of combating subversion and of dealing with trouble-makers who use firearms. There has been no change of policy.